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Happenings on Seymour

April 6, 2018, 10:02 p.m.
Posts: 152
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

Haven't ridden Seymour much in the last couple months.  Finally got out today and noticed:

  • A bunch of new CMHC / BC signs that seem to be part of the recent agreement.

  • The sign for Forever After now says it's a Black Diamond trail.  I always thought it was harder than Asian Adonis so fair enough I suppose although ironically it's the most "groomed" it's been in years.  (Did they screw up the tree jump though?  It felt as if I hucked to flat on it today so either it's got more kick than before or something has happened to the transition.  I didn't stop to analyze though😜).   I wonder what they are going to do with the rating for C-buster now?🙄

What else is new?

April 6, 2018, 10:10 p.m.
Posts: 936
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Posted by: Xorrox

I wonder what they are going to do with the rating for C-buster now?🙄

I've always found C-buster to be the most challenging trail on Seymour.

April 7, 2018, 11:43 a.m.
Posts: 1478
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

The piece of tape under the "More Difficult" rating on the FA sign that said "....than any other blue trail!" always made me chuckle.

April 7, 2018, 8:41 p.m.
Posts: 736
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

North Shore No More!

:)

April 8, 2018, 6:29 p.m.
Posts: 1505
Joined: July 11, 2014

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

Posted by: Xorrox

I wonder what they are going to do with the rating for C-buster now?🙄

I've always found C-buster to be the most challenging trail on Seymour.

Agree. Steep rocky chunk with some hard corners, the best kind! I guess Boogie is a double black because of some of the option features and the finish with Piledriver etc.

Forever After has a few bits that are definitely more challenging than anything on AA or John Deer.

April 9, 2018, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 848
Joined: June 26, 2012

There are definitely some 'legacy' trail ratings on the Shore. For example, Pipeline has a blue-black sign at the top and used to be the easy trail on Fromme. Now it is arguably one of the most challenging. 

Boogieman above the log ride isn't that much harder than Pangor, but the end section with the Piledriver is legitimately hard and a bit scary, and warrants the double-black rating.

C-Buster is a bit of a tough one to pin down. Now that there is the option to skip the hard part and ride AA, maybe the steep switchback section could get called a double-black. But before AA, calling the trail overall a black was probably appropriate.

I don't find FA to be much different in difficulty to Dale's. If Dale's is a black, FA should be as well.

We could spend all day debating trail ratings. So much of it is subjective and will vary based on what different riders find to be challenging.

April 9, 2018, 9:30 p.m.
Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Pipeline was the first black trail I rode on the shore due to hearing reports it was an "easy" black. That ride was depressing. I can see that at some point in the past, in a less eroded state, it might have been fairly straightforward.

For the record I liked forever after. Pipeline beat me up.

April 10, 2018, 5:10 p.m.
Posts: 1505
Joined: July 11, 2014

Agree re: first time riding Pipeline and expecting Expresso hehe. Although now it feels like a minor step up if you exclude the wood. Lower Oilcan got some love at some point recently, really enjoy that trail and recommend riders wanting a challenging but not crazy step up in difficulty on Fromme try it out.

April 10, 2018, 8:50 p.m.
Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 8, 2016

The ratings are funny sometimes. I rode Pipeline in the wet last week and it reminded me just how janky that trail is (which I enjoy). I think it deserves its black rating and could see how it would be frustrating for some with it's slick rock armouring, woodwork and roots. 

It's pretty hard to grade some of the trails though. I often think Ladies should be downgraded to a black, but I suppose there are no ride arounds. Upper Oil Can without the stunts is a blue/black. But then what makes something challenging? Do you grade based on the tech, features, jumps?

April 11, 2018, 2:31 p.m.
Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Yep. Forever after is a simple trail except the couple of features that are off camber and pretty unavoidable. If they had ride arounds it'd be a blue for sure, but even walking a couple of them is basically as sketchy as riding them. With pipeline I also agree, it's fundamentally janky so it makes sense to be a black, there no trail features really that make it a black, it's the trail itself, so no real way to downgrade it. I think it keeps eroding and keeps getting harder every year, also. That said none of it is particularly high consequence. To me that's where a black becomes a double black, unavoidable and high consequence. But I guess high consequence/commitment is also subject to definition.

April 11, 2018, 4:03 p.m.
Posts: 5
Joined: March 11, 2007

Pipeline was the first shore trail I ever rode as well! Loved it and haven't looked back.

I always considered Ladies Only an easy double black and have recommended it to lots of people. Even going as far as telling people I thought Pipeline was harder. I've also taken a couple of newer riders down it and quickly realized that my internal trail rating system is quite skewed. Without the option of ride arounds it can be a daunting trail for people who are inexperienced with woodwork.

April 12, 2018, 2:38 p.m.
Posts: 1505
Joined: July 11, 2014

I think the trail ratings assume following the main line on the trail. If there are a few double black option lines off to the side, maybe it's still a single black, but if the main line has double black features it's a double black. Upper Ladies could go either way, none of the stunts are crazy... Lower Ladies I would say is double black because of the steep corners near the top that have some exposure.

April 13, 2018, 8:49 p.m.
Posts: 152
Joined: Feb. 13, 2016

If we are going to argue for changing ratings then Bookwus (on Fromme) anyone?  Single Black diamond - seriously???  I really want to see a few full length POV videos of people cleaning that trail so I can believe it is actually possible.

@ Grambo - totally agree with both your comments.

Pipeline: Spanked me the first 2 times but now may be my favorite trail (although I have to admit I don't do the optional skinny lines or the teeter totter which scares the s**t out of me for some reason.)

April 14, 2018, 7:33 a.m.
Posts: 449
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Cleaning Bookwus is possible. But because of the erosion factor it changes all the time.

April 20, 2018, 7:55 p.m.
Posts: 315
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Long ago: Pipeline was a Fromme "beginner" route. Expresso was a Fromme technical route.

Nowadays: Pipeline is a Fromme medium-advanced. Expresso is ageneral people pleaser (but there are still the wiley types who do th old school entrance and off-shoots).

Moral: It just doesn't matter....it is what it is. It may not be the same later on.

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