Grumpy Old Schoolers

STOP. DUMBING. DOWN. THE. STANLEY. PARK. SEAWALL.

what's an acceptable trail that's technical but not just an eroded piece of shit?

Maybe Upper Oilcan. Its armored and tech and it doesn't see much traffic (although its been increasing again lately).

Slightly off topic.

Gord,

I'm assuming you're using MS word to write your documents (as we all do). Word has this nasty feature called "smart" (or dumb as I like to call them) quotes. These typically aren't handled well on most web sites as they are in a special windows character set. Getting these supported in web forms used by forums is tricky. As a result they come out as funny characters in html making text hard to read. I have my word settings set to disable smart quotes to avoid the issue.

ok, thanks for the heads up on that. I timed out before on a post and thought I would draft in MSWord.

(Strange too since I do not see the characters you see on my Apple Mac OS.)

Slightly off topic.

Gord,

I'm assuming you're using MS word to write your documents (as we all do). Word has this nasty feature called "smart" (or dumb as I like to call them) quotes. These typically aren't handled well on most web sites as they are in a special windows character set. Getting these supported in web forms used by forums is tricky. As a result they come out as funny characters in html making text hard to read. I have my word settings set to disable smart quotes to avoid the issue.

This whole flow thing is wrong it's not trails that are smooth it's riders.Any trail is just as smooth as a good rider makes the rest is really just a new type of pavement.

Hey! Who says we're grumpy?

Hey! Who says we're grumpy?

I say I'm grumpy!!

Wizard is semi right- using Flow to describe a Rider irregardless of trail is using the term Flow as an intransitive verb - "to move gently, smoothly, and easily; glide"

Common sense tells you the seawall is far different than S[HTML_REMOVED]M.

Flow, in the context of a trail, as a noun indicates "the act or manner of flowing, a continuous production, anything that flows; stream or current- (OR TRAIL)"

S[HTML_REMOVED]M is hardly a continuous production of flowing, it is tight, with a need of varying speed to navigate the steep fall away switchbacks yes, a better Rider can "Flow" it better as Wizard argues but that is indicative of the Rider Skill, not the Trail Characteristics.

An important distinction.

This whole flow thing is wrong it's not trails that are smooth it's riders.Any trail is just as smooth as a good rider makes the rest is really just a new type of pavement.

Meanwhile, in another thread…

I headed up to Severed after work last night. I hadn't ridden that area of Seymour for a while and was in for a pleasant surprise. Work on Old Buck has started and I'm looking forward to seeing what it will look like when finished.

I was really impressed with the work done on Baden Powell up to Pangor, Severed, etc. Much more easy to ride. Almost pleasant.

Severed was in great shape. The new entrance and trail work has made it flow much better. It's a lot of fun! :clap:

oh boy :damn: here we go…

Figured that title would get the right and wrong people to the thread.

In a previous thread that was really all about two sides who disagree and will never agree (much like I'm sure the teachers strike thread was/is) a simple idea was mentioned and only 2 others commented on it (instead the thread went into more snipping at each other) that I've now pushed to NSMBA. This thread is to ask what others outside of NSMBA think of such a proposal.

The proposal is simply this: Given that there is a strong minority of riders who enjoy the old school technical trails, would it make sense to have a subgroup/group within NSMBA with a director to monitor, maintain, and be a focal point for such people/trails? This would give old schoolers someone within NSMBA who would have a list of trails that will be maintained with specific guidelines to remain at a certain technical old school. It might help diffuse the situation.

Any POSITIVE solutions, feedback, etc are always good but lets try to avoid the usual banter.

If you want to see that happen, there is only one way and it's pretty simple. Volunteer to become an NSMBA director at the next agm.

I don't ride the shore much, but I am definitely a grumpy old schooler and former director with my local trail association.

Meanwhile, in another thread…
oh boy :damn: here we go…

What was wrong with that? I ride Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Squamish, Whistler and the FV. What we've lacked on the Shore has been variety. And now we have it. As an import to Vancouver I feel blessed to live here.

Skiing Whistler wouldn't be so much fun if it didn't have so much variety. Nothing more I like than to hit the double and single black diamonds in the morning and then go for some speed sessions on the blues in the afternoon.

PS - I support you 100% in your work on Cypress and follow you on Facebook. I'd absolutely hate to lose those trails, and also believe we should aim to keep a lot of the gnarlier old school trails on the other mountains.

I classify myself as a "Very Happy Old Schooler".

I think a good place to start would be to gather some statistics about the number of riders that feel this way. My feelings on the issue aside, what pisses me off is when people who like the old school tech are referred to as a "vocal minority". This seems to be based on experience rather than actual measurement (anybody please correct me if I'm mistaken).

It's important to remember that mtb is not just a hobby here, but a lifestyle. There are people in the community that carry a high social status because of their contributions (this is not undeserved) and I've witnessed peoples reluctance to offer a contrary view, for fear of the social repurcussions or just because they wouldn't want to be rude and tell a builder that you aren't a fan of the new work or design. I'm not claiming that the old schoolers arent in a minority, but shouldn't we find out to what extent? This would help the nsmba prioritize effort and expenses.

The best way to do this? I'm not sure, maybe an anonymous survey.

Either way, sounds like an interesting idea. Keen to see how it plays out.

Nothing at all!

Look at the other post where we were called wrong on using the word flow

And then I see your's shortly after, and I cross posted, showing that the use of flow in my context was the same as your's too.

Cheers

What was wrong with that? I ride Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Squamish, Whistler and the FV. What we've lacked on the Shore has been variety. And now we have it. As an import to Vancouver I feel blessed to live here.

Skiing Whistler wouldn't be so much fun if it didn't have so much variety. Nothing more I like than to hit the double and single black diamonds in the morning and then go for some speed sessions on the blues in the afternoon.

PS - I support you 100% in your work on Cypress and follow you on Facebook. I'd absolutely hate to lose those trails, and also believe we should aim to keep a lot of the gnarlier old school trails on the other mountains.

I classify myself as a "Very Happy Old Schooler".

Hi Scotter,

I have a Survey Monkey gold survey account. We can put up a survey there for this issue. We can determine what the questions are.

I looked at the still posted MTB Cypress data last night, and though I capture some tangential data on the views of Fromme, and what minimum rider ability; Seymour, and what minimum rider ability; and likewise for Cypress; I do not differentiate from Technical Old School and Flow New School.

And let's tie in the thread's initial focus too should the NSMBA consider a "Director of Gnar". First job- Deal with Dale's.

This is really the issue: what could a Director of Gnar do in the case of how Dale's rock was handled? Probably not much at all.

If any of you have not done that survey, it is HERE

I think a good place to start would be to gather some statistics about the number of riders that feel this way. My feelings on the issue aside, what pisses me off is when people who like the old school tech are referred to as a "vocal minority". This seems to be based on experience rather than actual measurement (anybody please correct me if I'm mistaken).

It's important to remember that mtb is not just a hobby here, but a lifestyle. There are people in the community that carry a high social status because of their contributions (this is not undeserved) and I've witnessed peoples reluctance to offer a contrary view, for fear of the social repurcussions or just because they wouldn't want to be rude and tell a builder that you aren't a fan of the new work or design. I'm not claiming that the old schoolers arent in a minority, but shouldn't we find out to what extent? This would help the nsmba prioritize effort and expenses.

The best way to do this? I'm not sure, maybe an anonymous survey.

Either way, sounds like an interesting idea. Keen to see how it plays out.