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Fromme parking debated by DNV

Dec. 4, 2011, 1:29 p.m.
Posts: 1223
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

No idea when or where, but according to this North Shore News article DNV Council was debating the parking issues on Fromme.

Kudos to council [HTML_REMOVED] staff for the good work they've done on the trails in the area and for addressing the parking issue head on.

The one bit that caught me off guard was mention of a diversion around Mountain View Park. I hope the Griffen Switchbacks won't be impacted. They're always a joy to ride!

By Tessa Holloway, North Shore News

THERE'S still plenty of work to do on the Fromme Mountain Trails and Forest Management Project, even after installing 100 new sign posts, three kiosks and mapping 62 kilometres of trails.

District of North Vancouver staff say the next big projects include staging areas with parking to get mountain users out of residential areas, and new mountain bike connections to help deal with conflicts.

Staff suggested new mountain bike connections from the top of Braemar to trails on the other side of Fromme, as well as a bypass to allow mountain bikers to avoid Mountain View Park, where conflicts between mountain bikers and other users have been particularly pronounced. That connection would cost $20,000.

A staging area with gravel parking and restrooms could be built for $250,000 at the top of Mountain Highway and $200,000 at the top of Braemar, the two preferred locations. The Braemar location, however, would require a new trail to connect to the rest of the mountain at $100,000.

To date, $790,000 has been spent on the program since 2006, of which $265,000 came from the federal government.

That total includes funds to restore the forest and decommission many of the illegally built trails in the area, as well as six kilometres of trails staff felt were poorly situated. Several logging roads that had been washed out were also removed.

Staff said there is also a need to reallocate funds to help maintain the trails over the long term, though much of that work is also being done by volunteers, such as the North Shore Mountain Bike Association's trail adoption program. A seasonal maintenance crew costs about $60,000.

There was strong appetite from council to plan further trail improvements, in particular a diversion around Mountain View Park. But the staging areas met with some resistance at the workshop organized to give staff feedback on the topic Monday evening.

Mayor Richard Walton warned against building parking at the top of Mountain Highway due to traffic concerns, arguing, "If you turn that to a staging area you're going to create a monster."

tholloway@nsnews.com
© Copyright (C) North Shore News

Read more: http://www.nsnews.com/travel/Fromme+parking+debated/5809033/story.html#ixzz1fbLJSqbC

Dec. 4, 2011, 2:12 p.m.
Posts: 15546
Joined: May 29, 2004

I'd lol if a parking lot was built IN monicaview park.

Dec. 4, 2011, 2:18 p.m.
Posts: 14564
Joined: Dec. 16, 2003

Monica's head must be spinning more than usual. On one hand she might get her park back, on the other she's probably partially responsible for all the support the mtb has been given by the district.

Imagine Monica, all the help you've given mountain bikers! We thank you for all you've done, and also thank you for your tax dollars that are supporting mountain biking on Mt Fromme!

Dec. 4, 2011, 3:07 p.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Could you imagine how better spent that $20,000 could be if they didn't feel this need to appease Monica.

Squeaky Wheel indeed.

They already paid over $30,000 in Mountain View park to put in Monica's road, fence around Mountain View park and take out some danger trees.

And that STILL didn't shut her up.

Do they really think this will make her happy?

If the DNV truly feels the need to put in parking at the top of mountain hwy. they should have a road loop from the current turnaround and exit at the lower water tower, have parking along this road and a trail paralleling so people will be off the road and have the road ONE WAY. This will prevent people from driving back and forth to find the closest parking spot….

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Dec. 4, 2011, 6:37 p.m.
Posts: 209
Joined: May 29, 2003

This was part of the council workshop on Monday, November 28th. Agenda and report are here.

Dec. 5, 2011, 8:10 a.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Lots of info in that report!

Interesting that the DNV listed NSMBA's first priority as Parking. (Page 9) When they gave the presentation it was second on their list which also seems pretty high considering the general consensus HERE was maintenance, trail crew and a more xc route as more important.

Oh well increased maintenance will come with the parking since parking will bring more riders to the area.

Nice to see on Page 17 a seasonal crew as a projected cost!

Interesting comment on page 33 re; peer gynt…

It would be nice to know on page 36 exactly which trail corresponds to each line in the graph.

Worth the read to see all the work the DNV has done this year and that the alpine study done back in 2005 wasn't a waste of time!

Looking to ride the shore but don't know where to go?

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Dec. 5, 2011, 8:27 a.m.
Posts: 2906
Joined: June 15, 2006

Bobsled, Ladies Only, somewhere on the BP and at/atround Mountainview Park.

This trip to Kelowna was definately an undertaking - Liam and I had been planning this project for 24 hours. We worked really hard to pull out all the stops in this video. We had slo-mo goggle shots; time lapses; pedal flips; outrageous product shots; unloading and loading the bike; walking through the field with your hand in wheat. At the end of the day this trip was all about just getting out and riding with all my friends.

www.letsridebikes.ca

Dec. 5, 2011, 9:45 a.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Bobsled, Ladies Only, somewhere on the BP and at/atround Mountainview Park.

so which one is which?

Looking to ride the shore but don't know where to go?

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Dec. 5, 2011, 10:47 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Increasing parking spaces goes against every type of Green initiative … and I'll be dammed if they won't even try to mitigate the effects of car traffic and pollution Mt Fromme. Why would the DNV be pushing for more parking for mountain bikers? There is lots of parking in Lynn Valley - an ample amount south of Coleman and tons of it closer to LV Road … its just a little further away. Are MTB riders really that helpless at getting around once they have parked their cars?

I would also like to know the nature of the track record of the "particularly pronounced" "conflicts between mountain bikers and other users", given that MVP is hardly a hiking mecca and most of the conflict appears be driven by a local resident whose suburban property intrudes into the park area and its entrance.

Dec. 5, 2011, 12:53 p.m.
Posts: 266
Joined: Feb. 10, 2011

I have been riding up there since 1992 and I don't ever recall a conflict with another trail user. See lotsa hikers/runners/walkers/bikers/frogs*/squirrels/nudists and everyone is pretty polite in my experience.

I did call the fire department on some idiots stoking a big bonfire during a fire ban a couple of summers ago though.

*OK, I have never actually seen a frog up there.

Dec. 5, 2011, 1:01 p.m.
Posts: 73
Joined: Sept. 2, 2008

Why would the DNV be pushing for more parking for mountain bikers? There is lots of parking in Lynn Valley - an ample amount south of Coleman and tons of it closer to LV Road

Good question and comments. I'm not sure allocating $450K to parking is the best use of funds when there's lots of parking in the area. Wouldn't the funds be better spent on the trails?

You'd also figure the merchants of Lynn Valley Mall would love to have mountain bikers park there to get some of the spinoff. As a comparison, the Parkgate lot is full of bikers on weekends and I can only assume that the merchants love it.

Dec. 5, 2011, 1:21 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

It is about a collaborative solution to the issues. Parking was one of many that were identified with the ARec study as TOP PRIORITY to deal with. In fact, it was first on the list, some 3 years ago now.

TOP PRIORITY should be the trails, not parking!

"Fromme Mountain Trails and Forest Management Project" - I see the word "trails" and "forest" in the project title, but I don't see "parking". Without trails, there is no reason to go there. If the trails are awesome, and parking is limited PEOPLE WILL FIND ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY WAYS TO GET TO THE TRAILS - WITH OR WITHOUT THEIR CARS. Its like opening the ice surface of Roger's Arena to parking to alleviate the parking congestion at Canucks games. Where do the Canucks play, then?

It is a truly pathetic comment on people's attitudes that in order to enjoy nature, you have to first build a parking lot.

I think the whole parking issue has been presented at least a dozen times on here. Lots of info you can search for to educate yourself on the issues the local residents and riders alike have identified that seek resolution.

I was at the very first DNV Parks meeting between bikers and residents about Fromme parking about 10 years ago. Were you there too?

Dec. 5, 2011, 2:36 p.m.
Posts: 523
Joined: June 19, 2006

Over all I think maintenance of the trails is the most important issue, however, I think getting parking nearer to the Water Tower or another entrance to the area is important as well. My kids ride trails on regular bases, they are 10 and 8. They are in good shape but trying to get them up the busy road to the Water Towers and leaving them enough energy to ride to the trails like Bobsled, Floppy Bunny….. can be difficult. Leaving them at the Water Tower isn't a option, while drive back down the hill, find parking and ride back up. There's parking in front of soccer fields. Most parks have parking areas at the base of the trail, so I'm not exactly sure what your getting your knickers in a bunch for. Why cant there be parking along one side of the gravel road on the way up to the Water Towers? Surely that wouldn't cost $450 thousand. If it makes the residents in the area happy and easier to get to the trails, it's a win, win.

Master of Puppets

Dec. 5, 2011, 2:40 p.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

You dump 450k into the trails on Fromme and the parking will become a severe shit show.

Unless ALL street side parking along Mtn. Hwy is designated residential only people are not going to be parking down at the mall.

You want people to park in lower Lynn Valley then build them a trail up.

Riding up Mtn. Hwy sucks period no matter how you slice it.

You don't build soccer fields or hockey arena's without some sort of parking. Putting tons of money into the trails would be the equivalent to building a new field with zero parking around it. It puts undue strain on the local neighbourhood.

I personally see the DNV addressing parking as an indication they are finally seeing Fromme for the amazing recreational resource that it is.

Dec. 5, 2011, 3:05 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

You dump 450k into the trails on Fromme and the parking will become a severe shit show.

I doubt there will ever be 450k for trail development … but the more money that gets "dumped" into trail building, the better.

As to people who want to take their cars up, there are 2 other mountains, one east, one west, where you have direct vehicle access to the trailheads - Cypress and Seymour. I'm not knocking shuttling, I do it too. But Fromme is special. You need to climb to get to any trail on Fromme, if you don't like it there are other options.

Riding up Mtn. Hwy sucks period no matter how you slice it.

Why?

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