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Fromme parking debated by DNV

Dec. 13, 2011, 1:34 p.m.
Posts: 248
Joined: July 10, 2010

This "Lazy" connection to a parking lot is ridiculous.

DNV is not considering a lot to accommodate lazy bikers and NSMBA is not looking to waste DNV resources on a lot for lazy bikers.

Stop the stupid Monica style arguments and be constructive to the thread.

Focus on the valid points:
- relieve pressure on the residents effected by street parking
- safety for youth riders, dogs and large groups of bikers climbing the road
- improve access to the area for all forest users with facilities to accommodate the volume
- legitimize the bike trails
- waste of tax money if parking can be found elsewhere and different/more/better trail access is established

Discuss.

Dec. 13, 2011, 2:20 p.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Focus on the valid points:
1. - relieve pressure on the residents effected by street parking
2. - safety for youth riders, dogs and large groups of bikers climbing the road
3. - improve access to the area for all forest users with facilities to accommodate the volume
4. - legitimize the bike trails
5. - waste of tax money if parking can be found elsewhere and different/more/better trail access is established

Discuss.

1. Will it? People will probably still park lower down since most ride finish below mt. Hwy. After they've driven up to the parking lot and back down they'll park in the residential area anyway.

2. True - until they have to ride back up to their cars. Unless a separate trail is built to separate the cars heading to the parking lot and the riders heading up Mt. Hwy.

3. ok

4. Already Done. There is a trail crew, turn around area, water fountain, washrooms and relationship between the DNV and riders. How will a parking lot enhance this?

5. Distributed parking with better trail access would benefit the system more. IMO.

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Dec. 13, 2011, 2:38 p.m.
Posts: 168
Joined: Dec. 30, 2004

I would agree with Sharon's points.

Dec. 13, 2011, 3:40 p.m.
Posts: 333
Joined: Dec. 21, 2008

I am a local resident and often drive my kid and his friends (12 yrs old) up to drop them off at the gate, then park lower down the hill and ride back up to attempt to catch up with them. I have never had any difficulty finding parking. If I don't have my kid with me then I ride up the hill from LV road. The only issue I see with the status quo is residents who live along the streets closest to the RPO area having to deal with the increased traffic and parking issues caused by Mt. bikers. I am completely against spending any of my taxes on trail-head parking infrastructure, and I would be very suprised if the majority of the local community felt differently. Pedalling up Mt. Highway is not necessarily fun but it is part of the price of admission for riding on Fromme.

-Don

Dec. 13, 2011, 5:23 p.m.
Posts: 3989
Joined: Feb. 23, 2005

Bitch less here, send more constructive ideas to the DNV.

Such as, and as suggested by Sharon for a long long time now, consider distributed parking in the local area to soften the impact of traffic and parking. The cost would be a few signs and road markings, then spend the extra money on the trails …. AND put a car park on Dempsey/Breamar (which already has better roads in both directions!) WITH climbing routes to the 2nd and 6th switchbacks to encourage people to use this access point and to take some pressure off the Mountain Hwy access route. Problem solved?

The only issue with distributed parking is that DNV will need to HTFU in response to all the moaning, bleating, whinging, carping, teeth gnashing and the veritable avalanche of vitriolic emailing that will be unleashed from a certain household on McNair.

Please let me demonstrate the ride around; really it's no trouble.

Dec. 13, 2011, 11:19 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

1. Will it? People will probably still park lower down since most ride finish below mt. Hwy. After they've driven up to the parking lot and back down they'll park in the residential area anyway.

2. True - until they have to ride back up to their cars. Unless a separate trail is built to separate the cars heading to the parking lot and the riders heading up Mt. Hwy.

3. ok

4. Already Done. There is a trail crew, turn around area, water fountain, washrooms and relationship between the DNV and riders. How will a parking lot enhance this?

5. Distributed parking with better trail access would benefit the system more. IMO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqtC1wUfm7A

Dec. 14, 2011, 12:08 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: June 23, 2007

Who on this thread that is pro parking lot lives in the DNV? If you do I'm glad to educate you on where to park on coleman street and how to access the trails from your parking spot. At the very most you will be a pretty flat 1 km away from Mountain Highway. Plus if you are like me and hate climbing Mountain high way because it so steep you can pedal up Hoskins instead which is not nearly as bad and then spits you out on Mountain High Way. AND you get to pedal past Monica's house, and on nice days when she's outside you get to say things like "Good day Monica! Beautiful day for bike ride isn't it!".

Look if you really want a parking spot on Fromme that bad get a Van Tan Membership.
http://www.vantan.ca/ I think you get a key to the gate for discreet access.

Dec. 14, 2011, 12:24 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Who on this thread that is pro parking lot lives in the DNV? If you do I'm glad to educate you on where to park on coleman street and how to access the trails from your parking spot. At the very most you will be a pretty flat 1 km away from Mountain Highway. Plus if you are like me and hate climbing Mountain high way because it so steep you can pedal up Hoskins instead which is not nearly as bad and then spits you out on Mountain High Way. AND you get to pedal past Monica's house, and on nice days when she's outside you get to say things like "Good day Monica! Beautiful day for bike ride isn't it!".

Look if you really want a parking spot on Fromme that bad get a Van Tan Membership.
http://www.vantan.ca/ I think you get a key to the gate for discreet access.

For the most part, all a parking lot on Fromme will do is give you a choice between whether you want to ride uphill to your car before your ride starts or after your ride ends (at MVP or Dempsey/Braemar). Also expect more auto traffic whenever you do ride up the hill to start your ride or back to your car, including, no doubt, people shuttling back to their cars up the mountain.

Dec. 14, 2011, 12:26 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: June 23, 2007

I'm investing way to much time into this thread but it really bugs me.

So again, I live on Coleman st, the highest street in upper Lynn valley non locals can park on. My argument saying there is lots of parking is from my personal observation of the amount of cars(with bikes and bike racks) on my street during the summer/peak days.

I've attached a map that I scribbled on showing the parking situation.

Dec. 14, 2011, 8:12 a.m.
Posts: 11680
Joined: Aug. 11, 2003

I'm investing way to much time into this thread but it really bugs me.

So again, I live on Coleman st, the highest street in upper Lynn valley non locals can park on. My argument saying there is lots of parking is from my personal observation of the amount of cars(with bikes and bike racks) on my street during the summer/peak days.

I've attached a map that I scribbled on showing the parking situation.

It's 2 hour parking in the "Where people do park", so that does technically make it a "Where people can park" zone.

Dec. 14, 2011, 9:22 a.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

When this whole thing started the dnv worked out parking with upper Lynn school on Coleman. Too bad they couldn't continue with that offering. The school didn't want to keep the lot open.

It's a pretty easy ride up through the school to McNair and up to mt. Hwy.

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Dec. 14, 2011, 9:50 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Nothing says "Don't bother coming back" like a parking ticket.

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Too bad you'll be missing an awesome riding experience because you don't want to put in the extra 10 minutes of riding. But that's your call.

Above Coleman is another 4 blocks to disperse parking. As people have said, not everyone will park up there if you're doing a loop, so reopening this area should alleviate congestion. Curious, why are these four blocks sacrosanct whereas Coleman and below, not so much?

Uhhh … because people want to park as close to the trails as possible? Once you are forced park a certain distance below, its no big deal whether you ride 8 minutes, 11 minutes or 13 minutes to get to the gate. That was what the District thought was the best solution to congestion.

One thing missing in the opinion here is that not everyone does a loop, I see lots of kids walking their bikes up to Bobsled. Assuming if they need to walk up, they're not doing a loop.

What's wrong with making kids get up the hill without a car, whether its on pavement or gravel? There are 2 other Mountains within a 20 minute drive that accommodate shuttling. My 12-year old and his buddies do it and accept it. I see also 10-year-olds riding up that hill.

Another thing missing is that bikers aren't the only people who use the trails. 5 blocks through residential to take your dog for a walk?

Do you actually own a dog? Its called "walking the dog", in case you hadn't noticed.

Despite how climbing Mtn Hwy seems to be a badge of honour for some, its a shitty climb and totally unnecessary outside of the seeming opposition to allow people to park close to the trails. Not sure why some people don't want to make the experience as inviting as possible?

Because:

1. It will worsen traffic problems in and around the top of Mtn Hwy
2. It will eat into money that should be spent on trails.
3. The District's priorities should be to encourage car pooling, walking and cycling as means of transportation. Building a parking lot does none of these.
4. A parking lot will cause the destruction of green space and result in more pollution in the forest area. Air pollution (from vehicle exhaust) as well as ground and water pollution. In case you haven't noticed, the parking lot will be on a hill. All the residue (oil and fluids) from parked vehicles over the months and years will wash downhill into Mountain View Park.

Also, I see lots of riders coming down from the gates on Mtn Hwy at about 70 km/h.

I see a lot of cars speeding down too … given that a car weighs over a ton, the consequences of a mishap are much greater. And the more cars coming down the hill, the worse the problem will be.

Sounding kind of NIMBY in here. FTR, I live above Coleman in the permit only area. I also don't really care about who rides up, walks up, gets dropped off, how gnarly you are or what loops you ride. What I do care about is people in power putting up barriers that excludes, rather than includes people when it comes to a shared resource.

Sharing also means RESPONSIBILITY, not take, take, take.

Dec. 14, 2011, 10:07 a.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Monica, is that you?

Except he speaks the truth.

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Dec. 14, 2011, 10:24 a.m.
Posts: 6328
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

In your opinion.

As a DNV taxpayer and mountain biker.

Looking to ride the shore but don't know where to go?

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Dec. 14, 2011, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

When I first starting reading this I thought most people posting were being pretty selfish in saying they'd rather the money went into the trails. I suspect the idea of installing parking is designed to appease residents rather than riders, as parking can be a bit of a gongshow on busy days. However, Sharon makes a good point, in that would additional parking at the level of the water towers actually be used, due to the end of most trails being below that point? Would be a shame to see DNV money spent for any reason and go to waste, regardless of what the actual aim is. Seems this is an issue where the riding community should step in and say, "Hey, we appreciate something needs to be done about parking, but we're not sure you're going about it the right way."

I guess the ideal solution would be small lots at the level of the water tower for those riding Bobsled, leopard etc, and a small lot somewhere along Dempsey for those riding trails that end lower down…

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