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From North Shore News - Kraal pleads guilty

Jan. 21, 2016, 4:15 p.m.
AlanB
Posts: 1233
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

I was trying to listen to the Global News feed at lunch today (two year old had other ideas).

Did her lawyer actually say that .."the association" sent her death threats etc.? To say MTBers did is one thing. To say a specific entity did is a completely other thing entirely. Sounded defamatory to me. The association may want to ask for a bit of clarification from my learned friend.

My recollection from the courtroom is that her lawyer was referring to the mtb community when he said "These are the people that… death threat". Kind of like how Bush Jr. would use Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda in the same sentence.

Jan. 21, 2016, 4:16 p.m.
spinner
Posts: 207
Joined: July 22, 2014

It is fair. Justice is served.

Jan. 21, 2016, 4:35 p.m.
Lee-Lau
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

I was trying to listen to the Global News feed at lunch today (two year old had other ideas).

Did her lawyer actually say that .."the association" sent her death threats etc.? To say MTBers did is one thing. To say a specific entity did is a completely other thing entirely. Sounded defamatory to me. The association may want to ask for a bit of clarification from my learned friend.

[HTML_REMOVED]iframe src="http://globalnews.ca/video/embed/2469588/" width="670" height="437" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen[HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]/iframe[HTML_REMOVED]

EDIT embed didn't work. Comments are from 2:30 onwards

"The other concern the defense attorney raised with the court is the Crown wants Kraal to do community service for the North Shore Mountain Biking Association, who, as Peters said, are the people that have threatened her since her arrest.

According to Peters, the association “threatened her in the social media, they threatened to kill her, they threatened to damage her house and now the Crown wants her to go work for these people.” He believes, in this case, the court should separate the victim and the offender."

These comments by Martin Peters , in and of itself, are mistruths and defamatory. Comments in video from 2:30 onwards

Link now has footage of Tineke Kraal laying down obstacles; also getting arrested by police

Jan. 21, 2016, 4:56 p.m.
Lee-Lau
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

and good coverage by NSMB from the front page

"The Kraal’s have been forced to re-mortgage their house because of the cost of these proceedings and Martin Peters indicated that Mrs. Kraal’s arthritis has suffered because she has been unable to go for her morning hike. She expressed remorse and regret saying her actions were stupid and childish. The threats she and her husband have received online have caused them to purchase an alarm system in their home, when previously they left the doors unlocked. Certainly these circumstances were brought about by Mrs. Kraal’s actions, but it’s clear she has suffered significantly. Her husband is about to start treatment for his third bout of cancer as well, and Mrs. Kraal is his primary caregiver."

Defence lawyers are expensive. Actions have consequences

Jan. 21, 2016, 4:56 p.m.
syncro
syncro
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

[HTML_REMOVED]iframe src="http://globalnews.ca/video/embed/2469588/" width="670" height="437" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen[HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]/iframe[HTML_REMOVED]

EDIT embed didn't work. Comments are from 2:30 onwards

"The other concern the defense attorney raised with the court is the Crown wants Kraal to do community service for the North Shore Mountain Biking Association, who, as Peters said, are the people that have threatened her since her arrest.

According to Peters, the association “threatened her in the social media, they threatened to kill her, they threatened to damage her house and now the Crown wants her to go work for these people.” He believes, in this case, the court should separate the victim and the offender."

These comments by Martin Peters , in and of itself, are mistruths and defamatory. Comments in video from 2:30 onwards

Link now has footage of Tineke Kraal laying down obstacles; also getting arrested by police

That's brutal and there needs to be a public apology issued by Martin Peters and broadcast on the cbc.

I bet all those twats calling for her head and shit on here feel pretty smart about themselves now.

:stupid::stupid::stupid:

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 21, 2016, 5:36 p.m.
sanrensho
Posts: 7543
Joined: June 17, 2003

Defence lawyer's comments are outrageous. I hope that the NSMBA doesn't take it lying down.

"The song of a bird…We used to ask Ennesson to do bird calls. He could do them. How he could do them, and when he perished, along with him went all those birds…"-Return from the Stars, Stanislaw Lem

"We just walk around, and sometimes we go out and dance, and then we listen to the environment."-Ralf Hutter, Kraftwerk

Jan. 21, 2016, 5:47 p.m.
ceebee
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug. 20, 2010

Martin Peters is confusing NSMBA with the public at large. Twice in that interview he states that NSMBA threatened Mrs. Kraal. This is false.

Jan. 21, 2016, 5:54 p.m.
syncro
syncro
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Martin Peters is confusing NSMBA with the public at large. Twice in that interview he states that NSMBA threatened Mrs. Kraal. This is false.

he may also be confused due to comments posted on nsmb.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 21, 2016, 6:01 p.m.
sanrensho
Posts: 7543
Joined: June 17, 2003

He's a lawyer and gets paid decent money…I very much doubt he was "confused."

"The song of a bird…We used to ask Ennesson to do bird calls. He could do them. How he could do them, and when he perished, along with him went all those birds…"-Return from the Stars, Stanislaw Lem

"We just walk around, and sometimes we go out and dance, and then we listen to the environment."-Ralf Hutter, Kraftwerk

Jan. 21, 2016, 6:12 p.m.
ceebee
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug. 20, 2010

he may also be confused due to comments posted on nsmb.

Yes, I suspect it is due to honest confusion of NSMB and NSMBA. NSMBA should ask for a retraction on this basis.

Jan. 21, 2016, 7:01 p.m.
boot
Posts: 526
Joined: April 16, 2005

Her lawyer is a chump, 'death threats' are you serious? Social media is about 150% nonsense.

None the less her sentence seems fair to circumstance. But… what if there had been serious injury or even fatality? Trapping a double black in my eyes is sort of intent to fuck someone up(cause bodily harm). Which also, is exactly what happen to me on Skull when she first began to work… luckily I walked the rest of the track with only a twisted wrist, and broken front brake lever $100.

Traps are not common, because I think most of them are aware of the implications. So I'll forgive her for probably having other deep mental issues, and throwing sticks may have helped her arthritis.

Jan. 21, 2016, 7:17 p.m.
walleater
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

I think she needs to train her dogs better.

treezz
wow you are a ass

Jan. 21, 2016, 8:18 p.m.
Stuminator
Stuminator
Posts: 6298
Joined: April 10, 2005

I think she needs to train her dogs better.

So the dogs got off scot-free? All kidding aside, I think she got what she deserved. That video of her laying down logs is damning. Anybody that would do that is not right in the head. I have zero pity for her. It seems like she wants people to feel sorry for her. I don't.

Thread killer

Jan. 21, 2016, 8:39 p.m.
Gord-B
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

I want to thank my colleague on the investigation and new friend SR for his efforts.

Peter's remark's were a bit poorly worded, and raised my eyebrows as
i was attending. FWIW I accept her apology and forgive her…

Though anyone writing to a Judge on their sentencing that states "her dogs are the real victims" just does not get it. And the Judge picked up on this… let us move on.

edit: http://globalnews.ca/news/2468303/north-vancouver-woman-who-pleaded-guilty-to-mountain-bike-traps-getting-sentenced/

that account is not informed by Peter's, and he does keep saying "association"

see our press release to media[HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED] the "association" had no ties to this event and Peter's comments are unfair to the "association" in casting them in that light.

Talk less, Say More.

Jan. 21, 2016, 8:53 p.m.
Gord-B
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

"The two mountain bikers whom undertook the investigation release the following statement:

We would like to thank the RCMP and Crown Counsel for their efforts on this independent citizen led investigation.

We will not comment on the sentence Mrs. Kraal received today.

Today’s result closes this unfortunate tale of Mrs. Kraal and the Skull trail. This story isn’t about user conflict. It is a story about the deliberate, persistent effort by one person to attempt to interfere with legitimate trail users she didn't even know.

What’s needed is respect: Respect for trail users of all types; Respect for the shared resource of trails of all types; and Respect for the land manager that governs use of these trails: the District of North Vancouver.

The District is managing the trail network by engaging with organizations such as the North Shore Mountain Bike Association (NSMBA). We informed the NSMBA at the initiation of the investigation as they are the legal trail stewards of the Skull trail. They were then informed again when we had approached the RCMP with the dossier of evidence. Lastly, they were informed of the arrest of Ms. Kraal on Jan 5, 2015.

With the culmination of this matter we need to focus forward. There are many types of activities that people undertake within the near country of our North Shore mountains- trail running, hiking, dog walking, mountain biking, and even picnics. Most all of these activities are trail based, as we know.

Let us NOT focus on the types of trail users, let us focus on WHY we are all there!

All of us have a responsibility to care for the trails. We also have a responsibility to others in understanding their right for their use and enjoyment too- this is key.

This case was only about one person, Mrs. Kraal, undertaking actions with the sole intention to disrupt another’s legal use and enjoyment of the trails that they are sanctioned for.

And she got caught."

Talk less, Say More.

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