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Dec. 21, 2016, 12:34 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

Here is my opinion:

The Forum in its' current form is detrimental to the community and to the NSMB brand due to the unaccountability of its' participants.

The quality of conversation, idea generating, and momentum towards a communicative community for the greater good for our sport is constantly derailed with the ever increasing false news, trolls, disrespect, and, in some instance, vulgarity, of the threads/posts.

As a result, I have, as I am sure others have, spent far less of my precious, well intentioned, time- here.

And this is sad, since it is our silent majority's intention to do good. Yet we just turn off NSMB and discount the Forum as being, far a large part, a lot of BS.

For those public figures whom post, and ARE accountable, there is a distinct difference in tone and quality of conversation- like this one.

Suggestion:

Cam, keep a part of the Forum anonymous, sure… but consider making the part of the Forum that deals with specific areas, such as the Shore, a Member Only access: for $15 bucks a year paid by credit card or paypal account… (an amount of the NSMBA Trail Pass [exactly why this… to be explained]) Forum participants have to register and provide personal details.

Update your privacy policy. Terms of Membership will be such that any abusive or flagged postings to a certain limit is tolerated. After three strikes your membership is revoked and access to the Forum blocked.

But the idea of the $15 a year Forum membership is that that money is then donated back to the NSMBA for Trail Passes… and the NSMBA and NSMB revitalize the concept that the Trail Pass is a part of an interactive positive communicating community with accountability.

There are many ideas and ways you can slice/dice this concept.

Respectful participants of this Forum: Please discuss.

Talk less, Say More.

Dec. 21, 2016, 1:55 p.m.
Posts: 623
Joined: Sept. 7, 2011

Great post , Great ideas.

Dec. 21, 2016, 2:19 p.m.
Posts: 2116
Joined: Aug. 4, 2009

An old car buddy of mine created an online forum for car chat years ago similar to this. The only rule was that your user name had to be your actual name and had to be approved before you could post. This made everyone accountable and also prevented false names like 'Hugh Janus' or 'Phil Mccrevus'

Dec. 21, 2016, 2:21 p.m.
Posts: 9
Joined: March 5, 2007

Great post. I fully agree that I spend much less time here for exactly these reasons, and I feel like the local mountain bike community is poorer for the increased difficulty of having the sorts of constructive conversations that Gord mentions.

Dec. 21, 2016, 2:39 p.m.
Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2011

I support anything that will reduce the amount of mud slinging and abuse around here.

BCpov on YouTube

www.instagram.com/BCPov

www.facebook.com/BCpov

Dec. 21, 2016, 2:40 p.m.
Posts: 885
Joined: June 26, 2012

I appreciate being able to be a biking nerd under an alias, even if my identity is clear to people here. I'm happy a potential employer won't see my inane posts about gear if they google me.

That said, I agree there's some pretty damaging stuff that's come up lately. They're not necessarily bad conversations to have, just maybe not best to be had in such a public environment. Making part of the forum private seems like a good idea, though I can't see too many people being willing to pay for access.

Dec. 21, 2016, 2:48 p.m.
Posts: 296
Joined: Jan. 25, 2011

Great post.

First of all, kudos to Cam and the crew for keeping this going and dealing with all the bs over the years. If you piled it up we'd have a fourth North Shore mountain.

I applaud the efforts to keep it an open forum. I've loved NSMB since the beginning and it's been a really great resource and community builder. Let's not forget that without NSMB we wouldn't have trail saboteurs see justice, important issues for local trail access and maintenance discussed, etc. There are positives for the barrier to entry being a valid email address…The Shore wouldn't be what it is without the NSMB Shore forum.

That being said, it really has become toxic. It's more and more just a place where any anonymous douche with an axe to grind can throw up a slanderous thread and serve up an all you can eat troll buffet. There is real collateral damage to the community as a result of the current trend and a cost/benefit discussion is necessary.

I would be totally open to a paid, non anonymous forum or sub forum where real mountain bikers can have virtual shop/trail side talk, discuss and maybe even talk a little shit without it being dragged down by the unwashed masses of trolls and haters who need a soapbox for their rants.

Dec. 21, 2016, 2:55 p.m.
Posts: 4857
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

i don't think there's enough bodies out there to justify pay to play. anonymity is fine, good forum health just requires active moderation to keep things on track and weed out the shit disturbers. that said, i imagine the ROI to adding moderation hours is nil, so not a priority.

Dec. 21, 2016, 3:11 p.m.
Posts: 8596
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

I like a lot of the thrust here but there's one problem. Facebook for the most part involves discussions with people using their real identities, and it can be every bit as toxic. Often more so.

I agree that transparency would help, but I think much of the problem we are talking about is a result of the medium rather than the level of anonymity.

Has anyone seen the comments below a CBC article regarding some polarizing political issue? You'd think CBC listeners would be like minded, but the vitriol and ignorance is mind-boggling. Maybe they are paid to be shit disturbers?

Dec. 21, 2016, 3:24 p.m.
Posts: 2265
Joined: Nov. 22, 2002

On the other hand, our community is a lot smaller and more tightly knit than the audience served by the CBC, so it's an informative example if not a completely parallel one.

People: you can report inappropriate or offensive posts. That's usually the fastest way to get the attention of the mods. There's a lot more going on on a daily basis for all of us than there was in the 'good ol' days' of the board, so we need this community to help police itself a little bit - or at least be a neighbourhood watch of sorts.

Dec. 21, 2016, 3:24 p.m.
Posts: 325
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

i don't think there's enough bodies out there to justify pay to play. anonymity is fine, good forum health just requires active moderation to keep things on track and weed out the shit disturbers. that said, i imagine the ROI to adding moderation hours is nil, so not a priority.

this for the win. moderation is definitely sub-par and while i know Cam is loathe to bring in censorship if there was stronger enforcement from the mod team on bad behaviour you'd see a lot less of the crap and inappropriate posts.

until recently i was the active mod in the health and fitness forum and if you look thru there with the exception of one recent nonsense thread there was no fighting, bullshit or inappropriate posts. i let people know early that bs wouldn't be tolerated and if it cropped up it was deleted swiftly and the offenders were sent a message to say that sort of thing was a no go.

while it's true there can be a fuzzy line at times on what is acceptable, in the bike related forums there should be very little tolerance for bs. then there could be a little more leeway in nbr for some antics but still have no tolerance for personal attacks. what makes the barbs and jokes far more entertaining is when people have to be clever about instead of just going the obviously crass route.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

Dec. 21, 2016, 4:11 p.m.
Posts: 666
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

what a quack of cwap

Dec. 21, 2016, 4:17 p.m.
Posts: 13931
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

The North Shore and the District of North Vancouver are not public utilities for which access should be free.

Yes they are, and yes they should. You are completely wrong.

I live in the District. It is through my taxes and community organizing efforts that there even exists a viable DNV and North Shore brand.

Bwahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhaahha….. That's awesome. You created the North Shore brand.

That brand should be both protected and shared with others through royalty payments. For instance, for every post on these forums, nsmb.com should pay say a 5 cent royalty to each North Shore government. The North Shore Mountain Biking Association should be paying a $100,000 fee to the CNV and DNV to use our good name. Trail users should pay for an annual pass for which a portion is the royalty. It is similar to any other business. One cannot call themselves the "Official coffee of the Vancouver Canucks" unless they pay a royalty.

I see why you failed to get more than 4% of the popular vote, you're completely delusional.

Dec. 21, 2016, 4:53 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: March 27, 2014

I like a lot of the thrust here but there's one problem. Facebook for the most part involves discussions with people using their real identities, and it can be every bit as toxic. Often more so.

I agree that transparency would help, but I think much of the problem we are talking about is a result of the medium rather than the level of anonymity.

What I am easily suggesting in my OP, I know being from technology side of things, is indeed somewhat challenging to implement. And it would cost you money.

Cam, does your current forum technology even allow for this?

Anonymity is good for you since your real costs of oversight are minimized to the lowest common denominator- you have less liability.

For every problem, there is a solution. It just needs to be prioritized as needed.

Maybe what I am suggesting here is, in fact, misplaced… maybe it should not even be here. Maybe it should be a forum at NSMBA's website, since NSMBA members are bound to act according to the societies rules (Read the Act people…) and they already have the website membership technology piece and payments processing.

As I think about this… it would be a better fit there….

Talk less, Say More.

Dec. 21, 2016, 5:20 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Yes they are, and yes they should. You are completely wrong.

Bwahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhaahha….. That's awesome. You created the North Shore brand.

I see why you failed to get more than 4% of the popular vote, you're completely delusional.

I love how some one is trying to bring Ontario trail politics to BC. I wonder if the individual in question is blood related to a individual in Simcoe County.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

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