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Encountering dogs while riding

Sept. 10, 2015, 4:16 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

. . . they're just being dogs . . .

Exactly. So, all one has to do is understand the nature and potential of dogs and apply a little reasoned control. This application is not the dog's responsibility, its the owner's. They shit in the woods, so pick it up. They like other dogs, so let them play a bit with them. They scare some people, so keep them under physical control. They like to be dogs, so make sure their doggy behaviour does not impact things in a negative way.

Extra: I have never seen a dog digging in the middle of a trail that wasn't quickly brought under control by its owner. I have seen dogs shit in the same place while the owner watches before walking off. I have seen dogs running tight circles around people, barking agressively, while the owner stands nearby and watches. I have seen dog attacks while owners seemingly react in slow motion. I don't get it.

fall any fall line

Sept. 10, 2015, 4:39 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

Now that I have gotten going, here are some more thoughts along with a tragic story.

Ultimately this is a safety and spatial integrity issue – and a human-animal issue. It doesn’t matter if dogs are friendly, aggressive, big, small, cute or whatever else. They are not in the same category as people. Dogs are not anyone’s children. I know that feeling is out there. I can also understand it. But, it’s ridiculous when it comes to violating another person’s integrity or safety. If your child attacks my child, any adult would intervene with the aim to separate them and stop it. If I reacted by kicking your kid in the head, not only am I sick in some way, but I would rightfully be charged criminally. However, if your dog attacks my child, I will not worry about your dog when I intervene. And if the attack is viscous, I will not hesitate to kick your dog’s head off (so to speak). I would then call the police and try to have you charged criminally.

While I’m at it, let’s look at another myth. This one is based on a difference between a dog’s owner and everyone else. The owner operates with their close knowledge of their dog. The rest have to navigate a world of many dogs, almost all of which are completely unknown to them. The owner knows their dog. They know it is friendly and just wants to jump on you to say hi. They know it is not aggressive, so even if it has a mean bark they feel it’s enough to tell you “it’s OK, she never bites,” or some version thereof. There are two problems with this. First, the stranger is asked to “stand down” and be OK with the dog’s behavior. It should be the other way around. Secondly, a dog’s character and history are no different than that of any other being; they are very good predictors of future behavior, but they are not foolproof. When it comes to aggression, we need to err on the side of caution.

Here’s what I mean. Years ago, I was arriving home with my beautiful 4 year old boy on a nice summer day. He stood beside our vehicle while I reached in the back to get some things. Before I could register anything, a nice dog from down the block was on top of my boy chewing on my kid’s face. I kicked the dog in the chest and it went flying. I dropped to attend to my kid, while my neighbour rushed up, grabbed the dog’s collar and started yelling at me. She said my kick was too much, that her dog was friendly and had never bitten anyone before. She stopped though when she got a look at my boy, blood everywhere, who was missing some of his face and eye. And his (and my) sanity. So, ambulance and fire truck, hospital, surgery, trauma, recovery, and so on. He almost lost his eye and has a ridiculous scar which two bouts of plastic surgery have repaired only some. Closing the circle, since then, he has had a pretty serious dog phobia which we have been working on for 14 years.

So, no, your dog is not a kid. And, it is irrelevant what you know about your dog. The odds are very high you are correct – but those odds do not make a certainty. Every dog who has bitten a person did so for a first time. That’s the only way it can be. So, respect needs to be shifted off of the dogs and on to the people. It’s simple, but I will repeat myself: you should employ whatever means you need to, to keep your dog under your control, out of other people’s personal space, unless invited otherwise.

As for phobias, they are difficult partly because by not being rational, they are plenty odd. My son had nightmares for years, he almost jumped out of his skin at the sight or sound of a dog, raccoons didn’t go down too well either, BUT, he found incredible comfort, in all places, with our own dog. That’s right, I am a dog owner and have loved dogs since my childhood. Our dog passed, and thanks to my neighbour, I will never be able to own one again.

fall any fall line

Sept. 10, 2015, 8:45 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Now that I have gotten going, here are some more thoughts along with a tragic story.

Ultimately this is a safety and spatial integrity issue – and a human-animal issue. It doesn’t matter if dogs are friendly, aggressive, big, small, cute or whatever else. They are not in the same category as people. Dogs are not anyone’s children. I know that feeling is out there. I can also understand it. But, it’s ridiculous when it comes to violating another person’s integrity or safety. If your child attacks my child, any adult would intervene with the aim to separate them and stop it. If I reacted by kicking your kid in the head, not only am I sick in some way, but I would rightfully be charged criminally. However, if your dog attacks my child, I will not worry about your dog when I intervene. And if the attack is viscous, I will not hesitate to kick your dog’s head off (so to speak). I would then call the police and try to have you charged criminally.

While I’m at it, let’s look at another myth. This one is based on a difference between a dog’s owner and everyone else. The owner operates with their close knowledge of their dog. The rest have to navigate a world of many dogs, almost all of which are completely unknown to them. The owner knows their dog. They know it is friendly and just wants to jump on you to say hi. They know it is not aggressive, so even if it has a mean bark they feel it’s enough to tell you “it’s OK, she never bites,” or some version thereof. There are two problems with this. First, the stranger is asked to “stand down” and be OK with the dog’s behavior. It should be the other way around. Secondly, a dog’s character and history are no different than that of any other being; they are very good predictors of future behavior, but they are not foolproof. When it comes to aggression, we need to err on the side of caution.

Here’s what I mean. Years ago, I was arriving home with my beautiful 4 year old boy on a nice summer day. He stood beside our vehicle while I reached in the back to get some things. Before I could register anything, a nice dog from down the block was on top of my boy chewing on my kid’s face. I kicked the dog in the chest and it went flying. I dropped to attend to my kid, while my neighbour rushed up, grabbed the dog’s collar and started yelling at me. She said my kick was too much, that her dog was friendly and had never bitten anyone before. She stopped though when she got a look at my boy, blood everywhere, who was missing some of his face and eye. And his (and my) sanity. So, ambulance and fire truck, hospital, surgery, trauma, recovery, and so on. He almost lost his eye and has a ridiculous scar which two bouts of plastic surgery have repaired only some. Closing the circle, since then, he has had a pretty serious dog phobia which we have been working on for 14 years.

So, no, your dog is not a kid. And, it is irrelevant what you know about your dog. The odds are very high you are correct – but those odds do not make a certainty. Every dog who has bitten a person did so for a first time. That’s the only way it can be. So, respect needs to be shifted off of the dogs and on to the people. It’s simple, but I will repeat myself: you should employ whatever means you need to, to keep your dog under your control, out of other people’s personal space, unless invited otherwise.

As for phobias, they are difficult partly because by not being rational, they are plenty odd. My son had nightmares for years, he almost jumped out of his skin at the sight or sound of a dog, raccoons didn’t go down too well either, BUT, he found incredible comfort, in all places, with our own dog. That’s right, I am a dog owner and have loved dogs since my childhood. Our dog passed, and thanks to my neighbour, I will never be able to own one again.

Well put.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Sept. 11, 2015, 6:48 a.m.
Posts: 8256
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

I hope you took legal action against that neighbor

WTB Frequency i23 rim, 650b NEW - $40

Sept. 11, 2015, 10:02 a.m.
Posts: 33724
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iguu-rAdAI4

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Sept. 11, 2015, 11:57 a.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

I do this. Used it only once. A Rottweiler and a German Shepherd attacked me while I was jogging around Northlands. Only used it because I was in shorts and a T-shirt, so I didn't have much covering and dealing with them in the usual manner could have resulted in me getting scarred.

Never had an issue with rider's dogs on the trail while riding; usually the dogs are really friendly.

Don't much like the packs lead around by dog walkers. Someone walks a half dozen pit bulls off leash, and sometimes one or two are a aggressive.

When I run, I use a hand-held water bottle [HTML_REMOVED] it is extremely effective [HTML_REMOVED] harmelss in stopping a dog in it's tracks. It's usually just filled with water (sometimes a sticky electrolyte drink), but the shock of the spray to the dogs face has halted even a most aggressive canine.

That said, while it seems all riders pooches seem to be friendly, I don';t need to be worrying about your pooch running under my wheels as I drop off a trick, or they cut through a switchback.
If you can't keep your dog near your own wheels (I'm looking at you…the dude on Kirkford who wouldn't wai for his own dog as it slowed us down….as well as "Belle [HTML_REMOVED] Sitka's" owner….and the dumbasses who blast down Bobsled with their short-legged pup ahead of a waiting group….or the guys who let their dogs roam around the drops on Bobsled without warning anyone….doggy pancake waiting to happen), don't make them my issue on my ride. Stop…wait for your dog…let me play through. I'll do the same when I have my dog with me.

PS Fast/busy trails like Bobsled, Expresso, or any place your dog can't keep up with you is a dumb place to bring your dog.

[HTML_REMOVED]end of rant[HTML_REMOVED]

Sept. 11, 2015, 12:15 p.m.
Posts: 2690
Joined: Nov. 29, 2002

I carry bear spray.

I had one d bag in Abbotsford threaten to stab my dog, he is a very large dog. He startled my dog coming up the trail. The dog took an instant dislike to him. This d bag was walking with his 4 or 5 year old kid. Packing his compound bow. I would have no problem going to jail if he made any attempt to hurt my dog. A cool head made him go away calmly. Oh how I wanted to kick some ass at that moment.

Might be best to not aggravate a already tense situation with threats of violence.

Life is like riding a bicycle – in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving.

A. Einstein

Sept. 11, 2015, 1:04 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 29, 2008

I had one d bag in Abbotsford threaten to stab my dog, he is a very large dog. He startled my dog coming up the trail. The dog took an instant dislike to him. This d bag was walking with his 4 or 5 year old kid. Packing his compound bow. I would have no problem going to jail if he made any attempt to hurt my dog. A cool head made him go away calmly. Oh how I wanted to kick some ass at that moment.

Might be best to not aggravate a already tense situation with threats of violence.

You have not explained yourself very well here but if your dog was being aggressive to a dad and his kids you have clearly missed the sentiment of this thread. Was your dog on leash? Were you in control of the situation? (I am sure you will say yes)

If dog displaying aggressive behavior even advances on my kids I will use whatever is at my disposal to stop that animal in its tracks. permanently or otherwise.

I have had dogs before; both social and border line "backyard only" dogs… There is no excuse for an animal to behave that way nor an owner to allow that to happen.

If your dog scares or startles easily then it needs to be on leash. end of story.

Sept. 11, 2015, 1:08 p.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

I had one d bag in Abbotsford threaten to stab my dog, he is a very large dog. He startled my dog coming up the trail. The dog took an instant dislike to him. This d bag was walking with his 4 or 5 year old kid. Packing his compound bow. I would have no problem going to jail if he made any attempt to hurt my dog. A cool head made him go away calmly. Oh how I wanted to kick some ass at that moment.

Might be best to not aggravate a already tense situation with threats of violence.

I've got no stake in this and agree that most dogs encountered on the trail look friendly and are friendly, but I tend to agree with some of the other people making the point that it should be up to the dog owner to ensure their dog is not approaching people that do not want to be approached by the dog.

In the case above, the guy with the kid likely overreacted. However, if a very large dog, became startled and took a dislike to me or my 4-5 year old kid, I too would be very protective and likely be in reactionary mode as would most parents. Not too sure on what to make of the compound bow part.

A friend was out riding and passed by a woman walking with two dogs, neither of which looked threatening. One was on leash and the other unleashed. As he was just about past the woman the one dog lunged at him and bit him on the back of his leg. A severe bite wound, lots of blood and a partially severed muscle or tendon was the result. The woman didn't even offer any assistance to him. RCMP report was filed. Apparently the woman had a history of taking on strays and rescue dogs and had other complaints of attacks.

So should have the father of the 4-5 kid waited to see if the dog would attack him or his kid, before reacting to what he likely took as an very large (as you indicated, and aggressive dog?

Sept. 11, 2015, 1:59 p.m.
Posts: 2690
Joined: Nov. 29, 2002

I've got no stake in this and agree that most dogs encountered on the trail look friendly and are friendly, but I tend to agree with some of the other people making the point that it should be up to the dog owner to ensure their dog is not approaching people that do not want to be approached by the dog.

In the case above, the guy with the kid likely overreacted. However, if a very large dog, became startled and took a dislike to me or my 4-5 year old kid, I too would be very protective and likely be in reactionary mode as would most parents. Not too sure on what to make of the compound bow part.

A friend was out riding and passed by a woman walking with two dogs, neither of which looked threatening. One was on leash and the other unleashed. As he was just about past the woman the one dog lunged at him and bit him on the back of his leg. A severe bite wound, lots of blood and a partially severed muscle or tendon was the result. The woman didn't even offer any assistance to him. RCMP report was filed. Apparently the woman had a history of taking on strays and rescue dogs and had other complaints of attacks.

So should have the father of the 4-5 kid waited to see if the dog would attack him or his kid, before reacting to what he likely took as an very large (as you indicated, and aggressive dog?

No I would expect the father to do what ever it takes to protect his little one. I understood where he was coming from. My kids are adults now so I can relate. Agree it is the owners responsibility to make sure your dog is not intimidating hikers or other riders.

If the father had of reacted out of fear or anger and hurt my dog with no real threat to him or his child, my response would have not been calming.
A cool head and some understanding was all that was needed to defuse the tense situation.

My dog is a calm guy, he does not get spooked easily. He was not on leash as we were in the forest getting close to the trucks. I moving in quick grabbed the dog and made him sit. while the dog was sitting next to me is when the guy said keep your dog under control or he would stab him.

I am now a little more cautious around anti/unskilled dog people.

Life is like riding a bicycle – in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving.

A. Einstein

Sept. 11, 2015, 2:29 p.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

No I would expect the father to do what ever it takes to protect his little one. I understood where he was coming from. My kids are adults now so I can relate. Agree it is the owners responsibility to make sure your dog is not intimidating hikers or other riders.

If the father had of reacted out of fear or anger and hurt my dog with no real threat to him or his child, my response would have not been calming.
A cool head and some understanding was all that was needed to defuse the tense situation.

My dog is a calm guy, he does not get spooked easily. He was not on leash as we were in the forest getting close to the trucks. I moving in quick grabbed the dog and made him sit. while the dog was sitting next to me is when the guy said keep your dog under control or he would stab him.

I am now a little more cautious around anti/unskilled dog people.

Sounds like you handled it well and de-escalated what could have been an ugly scene.

You comment on understanding is spot on. If more people could better understand where others are coming from or why they might be reacting in a certain way, many of problems would also go away.

Kind of a reoccurring theme here in NSMB NBR and The Shore land.

Sept. 11, 2015, 5:31 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 7, 2006

No No No No!
Understanding is always good. Knowing your dog "is a calm guy" is fine too. Heightened emotions are natural. BUT, NONE OF THAT MATTERS!
You should employ whatever means you need to, to keep your dog under your complete and total control (physical control by leash or collar) and out of other people’s personal space, unless invited otherwise.
Its not complicated. It is the dog owner's responsibility to do this and to be prepared so they can do this. There is no god given right to have dogs running around on the loose . . . even in the woods. Of course, its also a good thing that our dogs have this freedom but it comes with a big "but." As a dog owner, you risk something if you let your dog run free. You risk more if you do not have proper control (training, leash, collar). You risk your dog being attacked in self defense by a person whose space your dog has violated. Period. What that person feels they are defending need not be any of your interest. If you don't like the risk, leash your animal.

And further, that person owes you nothing. Not understanding. Not an explanation. Certainly not a justification. IN FACT, you owe them an apology for not having proper control over your calm guy dog. Remember, they are exercising a right: to walk about the world without undo interference from other people (and their pets and other things).

After all, it is no different with riding your bike. When I come barrelling down a trail and meet a person walking (up, down, sideways, sleeping, standing, etc.), regardless of the rules of trail use, it is my responsibility to have control over myself and my bike. If that person is standing on the trail, breaking trail ettiquette, looking up at me like an idiot, it is still me who must protect him from being mowed down by me. If I am not in enough control and hit him, the fault is all mine. My trail rights are trumped by his human rights. Its actually straightforward.

fall any fall line

Sept. 11, 2015, 6:40 p.m.
Posts: 4841
Joined: May 19, 2003

locals , i will be returning from dog training school in california at the end of october with a very well trained and people neutral border collie .

if you haven't gotten any help by then , or would like some assistance with your condition , contact me here through PM . i'm in whistler but am in the city frequently .

Sept. 11, 2015, 6:53 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: May 24, 2013

No No No No!
Understanding is always good. Knowing your dog "is a calm guy" is fine too. Heightened emotions are natural. BUT, NONE OF THAT MATTERS!
You should employ whatever means you need to, to keep your dog under your complete and total control (physical control by leash or collar) and out of other people’s personal space, unless invited otherwise.
Its not complicated. It is the dog owner's responsibility to do this and to be prepared so they can do this. There is no god given right to have dogs running around on the loose . . . even in the woods. Of course, its also a good thing that our dogs have this freedom but it comes with a big "but." As a dog owner, you risk something if you let your dog run free. You risk more if you do not have proper control (training, leash, collar). You risk your dog being attacked in self defense by a person whose space your dog has violated. Period. What that person feels they are defending need not be any of your interest. If you don't like the risk, leash your animal.

And further, that person owes you nothing. Not understanding. Not an explanation. Certainly not a justification. IN FACT, you owe them an apology for not having proper control over your calm guy dog. Remember, they are exercising a right: to walk about the world without undo interference from other people (and their pets and other things).

After all, it is no different with riding your bike. When I come barrelling down a trail and meet a person walking (up, down, sideways, sleeping, standing, etc.), regardless of the rules of trail use, it is my responsibility to have control over myself and my bike. If that person is standing on the trail, breaking trail ettiquette, looking up at me like an idiot, it is still me who must protect him from being mowed down by me. If I am not in enough control and hit him, the fault is all mine. My trail rights are trumped by his human rights. Its actually straightforward.

As an owner of a fearful and reactive dog, this is 100% spot on.

I take my dog into the woods, and sometimes even off leash, but only in specific places at specific times of the day (and not on my bike). My #1 fear is her feeling cornered on a tight trail, barking at someone in her very 'energetic' manner, and getting a kick in the face. But I realize it's my responsibility to prevent this situation and nobody else's.

Sept. 11, 2015, 8:12 p.m.
Posts: 3647
Joined: May 23, 2006

I had one d bag in Abbotsford threaten to stab my dog, he is a very large dog. He startled my dog coming up the trail. The dog took an instant dislike to him. This d bag was walking with his 4 or 5 year old kid. Packing his compound bow. I would have no problem going to jail if he made any attempt to hurt my dog. A cool head made him go away calmly. Oh how I wanted to kick some ass at that moment.

Might be best to not aggravate a already tense situation with threats of violence.

Fuck man I don't spray the dog, I spray the owner!

Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.

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