New posts

ebikes on the Shore

June 5, 2022, 11:33 a.m.
Posts: 2202
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: craw

And so it begins. 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/falling-batteries-and-risk-of-fire-leads-to-santa-cruz-recall-of-2022-heckler-emtbs.html

The above is Not really an issue with fire , I had this happen on a few of my shimano bikes, the battery lock holder space widens and needs to be adjusted and if not the battery can slip through one gateway and there is a safety to catch it, I have had one come out and since then backed it up with a strap, it is highly unlikely that it will cause a battery fire. The currrent espartans I am on now have the battery inside the frame and it is how most will go in the future.

I have had zero and alta electric dirt bikes with massive batteries and never been concerned with crashing or charging, and been on electric motor foils from lift and stinger for 5 years which are 4 times more power full than a typical ebike battery and never had an issue, several electric long boards-made in China without issue, and over 35,000km on emtb and same, simple to charge and safe, like plugging in a computer or iPhone. The only time a battery can be dangerous if it gets damaged and then you add a charge to it, so any cases which u may see or read about are extremely rare. Gonna have to find something else to hate or worry about, sure you will come up with something.

June 5, 2022, 2:24 p.m.
Posts: 1668
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Science settled, nice work citizen. All case studies should be based on one participant.

On your way out let the airline industry know that large lithium batteries are safe and we can bring them onboard again, the 354 lithium battery related incidents they've had are of no concern for the FAA.

I mean what's the worse that could happen? It's not like an airplane will crash or a forest will catch on fire.

Oh wait

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/24/ups-crash-dubai-lithium/2582213/

https://www.ctif.org/news/large-increase-lithium-battery-related-fires-over-last-6-years

June 5, 2022, 4:55 p.m.
Posts: 158
Joined: May 13, 2014

Posted by: Hepcat

Science settled, nice work citizen. All case studies should be based on one participant.

On your way out let the airline industry know that large lithium batteries are safe and we can bring them onboard again, the 354 lithium battery related incidents they've had are of no concern for the FAA.

I mean what's the worse that could happen? It's not like an airplane will crash or a forest will catch on fire.

Oh wait

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/24/ups-crash-dubai-lithium/2582213/

https://www.ctif.org/news/large-increase-lithium-battery-related-fires-over-last-6-years

Agreed.  Anything with a battery and motor can fail and catch fire.  Sadly, I suspect it is going to be a case of reactionary rather than proactive work in preventing it.  Here in BC last year was a really bad fire year.  Not like any mountain bike associations are going to spearhead any inroads with land managers/district managers et al to get ebikes banned before the forest burns down.  

I get it....kids party in the woods and make fires, some hikers smoke and make fires on overnight trips (a good portion of fires are human caused).  But no one is going to be wheeling an ebike out after it has caught fire....so the evidence of what caused the conflagration will be obvious.

An idea:  since the motor is doing all the work anyway, maybe just mandating fire extinguishers on ebikes as standard equipment would work......

June 6, 2022, 7:43 a.m.
Posts: 914
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: norona

Posted by: craw

And so it begins.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/falling-batteries-and-risk-of-fire-leads-to-santa-cruz-recall-of-2022-heckler-emtbs.html

The above is Not really an issue with fire , I had this happen on a few of my shimano bikes, the battery lock holder space widens and needs to be adjusted and if not the battery can slip through one gateway and there is a safety to catch it, I have had one come out and since then backed it up with a strap, it is highly unlikely that it will cause a battery fire. The currrent espartans I am on now have the battery inside the frame and it is how most will go in the future.

I have had zero and alta electric dirt bikes with massive batteries and never been concerned with crashing or charging, and been on electric motor foils from lift and stinger for 5 years which are 4 times more power full than a typical ebike battery and never had an issue, several electric long boards-made in China without issue, and over 35,000km on emtb and same, simple to charge and safe, like plugging in a computer or iPhone. The only time a battery can be dangerous if it gets damaged and then you add a charge to it, so any cases which u may see or read about are extremely rare. Gonna have to find something else to hate or worry about, sure you will come up with something.

Chill out. I don't care particularly. I think this probably going to turn out to be an occasial thing for the masses of super incredibly cheap ebikes that non-cyclists will turn to in the coming months. So many are made so cheaply to hit such low price points that safety problems are inevitable. To your point I think well designed well built ebikes will be totally fine. It's not hate, just common sense.


 Last edited by: craw on June 6, 2022, 7:43 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 6, 2022, 9:07 a.m.
Posts: 1390
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: craw

And so it begins. 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/falling-batteries-and-risk-of-fire-leads-to-santa-cruz-recall-of-2022-heckler-emtbs.html

I doubt there is no more risk with these batteries than say the gasoline powering any number of things like dirtbikes,quads,chainsaws etc. like those things, they should not be allowed in the woods during times of high fire risk and should probably be governed the same. That mole hill is getting bigger all the time. I’d be just as concerned about the batteries in your bike lights. I would argue they are at the same risk of damage and failure. Maybe a larger risk as more of those batteries are made cheaply and are of low quality. Not to mention there are a lot more of them. Santa Cruz should be credited for getting ahead of the problem.

June 6, 2022, 9:25 a.m.
Posts: 2388
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: craw

Posted by: norona

Posted by: craw

And so it begins.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/falling-batteries-and-risk-of-fire-leads-to-santa-cruz-recall-of-2022-heckler-emtbs.html

The above is Not really an issue with fire , I had this happen on a few of my shimano bikes, the battery lock holder space widens and needs to be adjusted and if not the battery can slip through one gateway and there is a safety to catch it, I have had one come out and since then backed it up with a strap, it is highly unlikely that it will cause a battery fire. The currrent espartans I am on now have the battery inside the frame and it is how most will go in the future.

I have had zero and alta electric dirt bikes with massive batteries and never been concerned with crashing or charging, and been on electric motor foils from lift and stinger for 5 years which are 4 times more power full than a typical ebike battery and never had an issue, several electric long boards-made in China without issue, and over 35,000km on emtb and same, simple to charge and safe, like plugging in a computer or iPhone. The only time a battery can be dangerous if it gets damaged and then you add a charge to it, so any cases which u may see or read about are extremely rare. Gonna have to find something else to hate or worry about, sure you will come up with something.

Chill out. I don't care particularly. I think this probably going to turn out to be an occasial thing for the masses of super incredibly cheap ebikes that non-cyclists will turn to in the coming months. So many are made so cheaply to hit such low price points that safety problems are inevitable. To your point I think well designed well built ebikes will be totally fine. It's not hate, just common sense.

are there even reported fires for ebikes from established mtb brands?

June 6, 2022, 10:31 a.m.
Posts: 1390
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: craw

not hate, just common sense.

Then why post it?

June 6, 2022, 12:02 p.m.
Posts: 914
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: craw

not hate, just common sense.

Then why post it?

Because it's an actual thing for a certain class of ebike. And this is a conversation about ebikes.

June 6, 2022, 5:40 p.m.
Posts: 1390
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: craw

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: craw

not hate, just common sense.

Then why post it?

Because it's an actual thing for a certain class of ebike. And this is a conversation about ebikes.

I’m going out a limb here but I would imagine that the Heckler probably wouldn’t fall into that certain class. Would it?

June 13, 2022, 1:44 p.m.
Posts: 2250
Joined: April 25, 2003

Hmmmmmmm, maybe get your e-bike now before the prices start to go up, the insurance industry is involved!

https://www.cheknews.ca/victoria-e-bike-store-faces-possible-closure-due-to-insurance-issues-1048976/

June 13, 2022, 2:23 p.m.
Posts: 467
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: tashi

Hmmmmmmm, maybe get your e-bike now before the prices start to go up, the insurance industry is involved!

https://www.cheknews.ca/victoria-e-bike-store-faces-possible-closure-due-to-insurance-issues-1048976/

I would be interested to know what Lloyd’s underwriters thinking is. WORCA Toonies don’t allow ebike participation due to insurance issues too. I agree with Norona above though. Sure a fire is a possibility but probably more with the really cheap crap you see. Cheap crap is cheap. And crappy. That said, real bikes won’t catch fire. Unless the AXS fails. Or the persons phone. About ten years ago there were a number of laptop computer battery problems causing burns and fires. I had an insurance file where a house fire had been started by a computer battery failure where a person died. Nothing came of it because the computer was destroyed by the fire. I think my client insured the computer manufacturer. Around that time laptop computers became a thing of the past replaced by the exact same thing but called notebook computers.

I suspect the fire issue is real but very few ebikes will cause a fire. And those that do will simply destroy the bike. Sure there are videos out there of burning crap but without actual data numbers to provide context it’s meaningless. One in a hundred? One in a thousand? One in ten thousand?


 Last edited by: andy-eunson on June 13, 2022, 2:24 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 13, 2022, 3:16 p.m.
Posts: 125
Joined: March 12, 2021

My neighbours bought themselves a commuter e-bike direct from some company in town that assembles/distributes them.  They tried to take it to the local bike shop to have a new fork installed (which they bought special order from the local bike shop) only to be told that they could not do the install or even work on the e-bike because of their insurance.  I thought for sure they were just being pissy that these people bought the bike consumer direct, until I saw that article about the shop in Victoria having insurance issues.

June 13, 2022, 4:20 p.m.
Posts: 283
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Don't blame bike shops for not wanting anything to do with off-brand ebikes. 

https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/explosion-of-e-bike-battery-caused-fire-mans-death-at-downtown-eastside-rooming-house-sro-owner-5469404

June 14, 2022, 8:03 a.m.
Posts: 316
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Posted by: andy-eunson

Sure there are videos out there of burning crap but without actual data numbers to provide context it’s meaningless. One in a hundred? One in a thousand? One in ten thousand?

It's certainly not meaningless that insurance companies are starting to draw a line in the sand with regards to coverage, and that some shops will need to make hard decisions on the cost/benefit of servicing or selling them.

June 14, 2022, 10:10 a.m.
Posts: 2250
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: mammal

Posted by: andy-eunson

Sure there are videos out there of burning crap but without actual data numbers to provide context it’s meaningless. One in a hundred? One in a thousand? One in ten thousand?

It's certainly not meaningless that insurance companies are starting to draw a line in the sand with regards to coverage, and that some shops will need to make hard decisions on the cost/benefit of servicing or selling them.

It's usually the insurance industry that has the best "numbers" on this stuff, actuarial work is pretty sophisticated work and it's being done by multi-billion dollar corporations.  If they're raising rates, something is going on.

Locally, some talking head from the city (I think) was saying on the radio yesterday that Vancouver went from 6 battery fires in a year to 30 last year.  Most are related to people being stupid with them if the last couple at SRO's are any indication, but stupid is what people does so they kinda have to be designed around that to some degree.

Forum jump: