ebikes on the Shore

Posted by: craw

Posted by: silverbansheebike

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

Well, there's One less e-bike on the Shore now...

Yikes! Hope the damage wasn't too bad. Thankfully it happened not on the trail, but I think most battery fires are when charging, if i remember from a few pages back.

Some of the commuter ebikes are absurdly cheap so I think we can reasonably expect stuff like this to start happening more often.

It's weird to reply to myself but here we go. Check out this video of a bike with a cheap aftermarket ebike conversion kit on fire.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/uava47/ebike_caught_on_fire/

I don't have any stats around these sorts of battery fires when it comes to charging vs. in use, but I have seen plenty of reports of these types batteries go up in flames while in use. So if I was dealing with a battery that I had any concerns about I would assume it could catch fire off charge and take mitigation action accordingly. I posted elsewhere that I think it will be very important for companies making/selling these vehicles to offer generous crash replacement/no fault programs so owners who dropped $10-$15K+ on a MAMB aren't tempted to see what happens if they crash damage their expensive battery or damage it in some other way. The industry really needs owners to replace any questionable batteries ASAP, but for that to happen the cost can't be eye watering.

Posted by: craw

Posted by: craw

Posted by: silverbansheebike

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

Well, there's One less e-bike on the Shore now...

Yikes! Hope the damage wasn't too bad. Thankfully it happened not on the trail, but I think most battery fires are when charging, if i remember from a few pages back.

Some of the commuter ebikes are absurdly cheap so I think we can reasonably expect stuff like this to start happening more often.

It's weird to reply to myself but here we go. Check out this video of a bike with a cheap aftermarket ebike conversion kit on fire.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/uava47/ebike_caught_on_fire/

yeah, that looks nasty... I think you're right in saying the absurdly cheap ones, or even the conversions, are where we can expect to see some catastrophe.

To Vikb's point, I wonder if it would even be possible to have a buy-back or crash replacement program for issues like this, or in that case would the manufacturer be taking on the responsibility of any other damage that the fire caused too?

Every electrical assembly has to be certified for use in Canada....whether it's CSA, cUL,cETL, Wharnock Hersey, etc... That goes for Xmas lights, toasters, espresso machines, e-bikes, ride-lights, and vibrators. Without that certification, the item is not to code and is not legal to use or sell in Canada. If you do purchase an non-certified item and it has a catastrophic fail, you may be liable. Your insurance may also be void. In the case of the fellow with the ignited e-bike, I would be curious as to whether or not that bike was certified or not. And if it wasn't, he was lucky he didn't burn his house down.

Posted by: mudrunner

Every electrical assembly has to be certified for use in Canada....whether it's CSA, cUL,cETL, Wharnock Hersey, etc... That goes for Xmas lights, toasters, espresso machines, e-bikes, ride-lights, and vibrators. Without that certification, the item is not to code and is not legal to use or sell in Canada. If you do purchase an non-certified item and it has a catastrophic fail, you may be liable. Your insurance may also be void. In the case of the fellow with the ignited e-bike, I would be curious as to whether or not that bike was certified or not. And if it wasn't, he was lucky he didn't burn his house down.

Half true. If by "code" you mean the Canadian Electrical Code, the charger would fall under the jurisdiction of the CEC as far as mandatory compliance, but not the battery or the rest of the system. The CEC has no scope related to the actual bike electronics.

UL 2849 has been adopted by the Standards Council of Canada as the safety standard covering ebike electrical systems, but it is, as yet, not a mandatory standard.

So at this time it's only be illegal to sell a charger without a valid listing.

Posted by: Kenny

Half true. If by "code" you mean the Canadian Electrical Code, the charger would fall under the jurisdiction of the CEC as far as mandatory compliance, but not the battery or the rest of the system. The CEC has no scope related to the actual bike electronics.

UL 2849 has been adopted by the Standards Council of Canada as the safety standard covering ebike electrical systems, but it is, as yet, not a mandatory standard.

So at this time it's only be illegal to sell a charger without a valid listing.

Yes...I was referring to CEC. Frankly, I am surprised it is only looking at the charger and that UL2849 ("developed to provide fire safety certification by examining the electrical drive train system, battery system and charger system combinations of e-bikes".) is not mandatory...although I suspect some of the stories about fires may speed that up.

Posted by: mudrunner

Posted by: Kenny

Half true. If by "code" you mean the Canadian Electrical Code, the charger would fall under the jurisdiction of the CEC as far as mandatory compliance, but not the battery or the rest of the system. The CEC has no scope related to the actual bike electronics.

UL 2849 has been adopted by the Standards Council of Canada as the safety standard covering ebike electrical systems, but it is, as yet, not a mandatory standard.

So at this time it's only be illegal to sell a charger without a valid listing.

Yes...I was referring to CEC. Frankly, I am surprised it is only looking at the charger and that UL2849 ("developed to provide fire safety certification by examining the electrical drive train system, battery system and charger system combinations of e-bikes".) is not mandatory...although I suspect some of the stories about fires may speed that up.

The first rev of that standard was issued in 2020, so it hasn't even existed for a full design cycle for most manufacturers they can't really just spring a new standard onto an entire industry- for example you need testing agencies to even tool up to do the certifications (in China, for the most part). So one way to look at is it's only existed since part way through COVID. Implementing these things is not just flipping a switch unfortunately... Just not realistic in practical terms.

That said I think Bosch and Panasonic noted they were compliant from the start. The big MFRS general have seats in the advisory committees for the development of these standards.

The best part of riding an ebike is seeing all the righteous social justice warriors come out of the woodwork. Nothing more illuminating than strongmen on the trails providing unsolicited opinions on why they 'don't like you or your kind'. Please continue gate-keeping, elites.

Funnily enough I see it completely differently. I'm never in a rush and am happy to walk up hill. I'm not sure how being happy to do one lap when others 'have' to do three is elitist. Maybe I'll get a 'ONE LESS LAP' sticker for my bike :D

I've got nothing against other people riding ebikes (as long as they aren't acting like jerks), but in my opinion they are a crutch. There will probably be a time when I need one, but hopefully that isn't any time soon.

Kind of like wheel size, pick a bike and be a dick about it.

Posted by: FLATCH

Kind of like wheel size, pick a bike and be a dick about it.

It's kinda like that, but kinda not. Ebikes are the first and only technology added to mountain bikes that do a significant amount of the work for you. So the opinion of them being a crutch is much more valid than wheelsize, disc brakes, suspesion, blah blah blah.

Posted by: FLATCH

Kind of like wheel size, pick a bike and be a dick about it.

Not even close. I have witnessed multiple instances of people riding UP John Deere on ebikes. 

Wheel size debates have not been able to spawn anything close to that particular brand of ignorance, that I'm aware of.

Oh my god! It’s humour FFS! I thought “be a dick about it” would be the tell.