ebikes on the Shore

I can reel it in. I appreciate you may be speaking to the general, but when you quote me in your post, it seems kind of specific. 

I totally agree, the baseless generalized ebike shaming is idiotic, and will do absolutely nothing to make things better for either group of riders.

I can reel it in. I appreciate you may be speaking to the general, but when you quote me in your post, it seems kind of specific. 

I totally agree, the baseless generalized ebike shaming is idiotic, and will do absolutely nothing to make things better for either group of riders.

I can reel it in. I appreciate you may be speaking to the general, but when you quote me in your post, it seems kind of specific.

I totally agree, the baseless generalized ebike shaming is idiotic, and will do absolutely nothing to make things better for either group of riders. My point was explicitly clear that there are de-gens in every group of riders, and we need more leadership from within the ebike circles to address the things (again among a small group) that are problematic. But this doesn't mean that any critique or articulation of a problem with ebikes is "ebike bashing". Directional riding, wet weather riding, passing uphill. Not bashing anyone or any group. Just saying these are issues that merit discussion....if happy integration is the goal.

I have no more patience for de-gens on mountain bikes that litter, strip their riding clothes in front of trailside residents, short-cut switchbacks, fail to slow down around horses, or other crap behaviors.  Not bashing mountain bikers when I call these things out. Just addressing crap behavior that ruins it for everyone.

Posted by: syncro

Woah, reel it in there a bit will ya?. 

I'm taking a bit of a different context on behaviour and considering it from the greater social sense as opposed to specific in-group behaviours which is why I disagree on your use of the behaviour. Participating in a specific sport is a behaviour as are the ways one conducts themselves in that sport. 

Most importantly though I'm not trying to misrepresent your words, I'm speaking to the general case and using  observation of how a fair number of riders are anti-ebike in their commentary about ebikes. There are plenty examples of ebike dislike in this thread, on other threads in this forum and all over social media in general. It's not hard to find someone talking bad about ebikes. I'll excuse your velcro comment as you're misinterpreting what I said with that last comment - I'm agreeing with you and saying the same thing. In fact, I've been saying that very thing since the debate about ebikes kicked off. That question was a rhetorical statement saying that we can't expect to integrate ebikers if they're are being maligned by regular bikers because they won't want to participate with people who are shaming them. This is critical, because of ebikes are going to become the dominant mode of participating on mtb'ing then it's critical to engage people with the idea of participating in good trail etiquette, which includes riding in a manner that does not cause excess erosion and participating in trail orgs in some capacity.

Hey Syncro, just so I'm on the record here with my view in case you have any doubts after your brief stint into the Meat Engines thread - FVCK Mopeds and they're riders. There are so few who actually need them for legit physical reasons (Digger, Paul Bas to name 2) the rest are just lazy, entitled, must get in the most laps and be a dick about the climbs type people. Down here I call them out and I berate them and belittle them with pleasure, because they're a bunch of lazy......

If motor driven bike riders want to be accepted, make the effort to look up and hook up with your local trail group and get out there and do some trail work, or at the very least make some proper donations to the trail orgs and Green Peace and other such orgs for the e-waste that you'll be dumping in the next 1-3 years or less.

Posted by: Lynx

If motor driven bike riders want to be accepted, make the effort to look up and hook up with your local trail group and get out there and do some trail work, or at the very least make some proper donations to the trail orgs and Green Peace and other such orgs for the e-waste that you'll be dumping in the next 1-3 years or less.

you do drive your bike to the trailhead in your truck, right?

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Lynx

If motor driven bike riders want to be accepted, make the effort to look up and hook up with your local trail group and get out there and do some trail work, or at the very least make some proper donations to the trail orgs and Green Peace and other such orgs for the e-waste that you'll be dumping in the next 1-3 years or less.

you do drive your bike to the trailhead in your truck, right?

What would make you, or anyone really, think that e-bikers in particular don’t contribute any less than anybody else? As far as lithium batteries go, you do know that there are many programs that recycle them don’t you? If that’s really your problem with e-bikes then maybe you should rag on ALL lithium batteries. You know, like cars, phones, tablets, laptops, power tools…. Foolish comments.

Posted by: Sethimus.

you do drive your bike to the trailhead in your truck, right?

What's a trailhead? :skep: Sorry, we don't have anything of the sort here and no, I don't drive to the start of rides since I don't have a vehicle and when I did, it was a rare occasion and I would try to link up with a few others so as to not waste fuel. 

For the record, yes I'm also "against" all the latest modern "environmentally friendly" tech, because it's not as friendly as it's made out to be, seems to do just about as much damage to the earth as drilling and refining crude. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the idea, but the implementation of getting raw materials and their longevity once produced are just not even close to what's needed. With cars, commuter bikes etc though, you're not smashing and damaging batteries and getting them replaced much, much sooner than you should - can't count the amount of guys down here who've already had to replace their batteries prematurely.

I kind of get this https://bikerumor.com/mondraker-marquez-edition-grommy-kids-bikes/ - that looks super fun.

But isn't this a bit short-sighted for a bike company? Isn't this just prepping kids to ride motorcycles?

If I had to choose between including someone in my community who was bullying and harassing the MTB community vs someone on a ebike who maybe didn't show up for trail days I know who I would choose to include in my community.

Posted by: craw

I kind of get this https://bikerumor.com/mondraker-marquez-edition-grommy-kids-bikes/ - that looks super fun.

But isn't this a bit short-sighted for a bike company? Isn't this just prepping kids to ride motorcycles?

I think so (and I think longterm such vehicles are bad for a variety of reasons, physiologically and psychologically speaking), but the real issue once more is that it is an "artificial", basically "useless" product designed and created with the sole intention of making more money.

Posted by: Lynx

Hey Syncro, just so I'm on the record here with my view in case you have any doubts after your brief stint into the Meat Engines thread - FVCK Mopeds and they're riders. There are so few who actually need them for legit physical reasons (Digger, Paul Bas to name 2) the rest are just lazy, entitled, must get in the most laps and be a dick about the climbs type people. Down here I call them out and I berate them and belittle them with pleasure, because they're a bunch of lazy......

If motor driven bike riders want to be accepted, make the effort to look up and hook up with your local trail group and get out there and do some trail work, or at the very least make some proper donations to the trail orgs and Green Peace and other such orgs for the e-waste that you'll be dumping in the next 1-3 years or less.

Look, I get the potential issues that ebikes present and I've seen and experienced some of it on the trails, but people don't need a "legit physical reason" to ride an ebike and using one doesn't automatically make them lazy, entitled or anything else you want to call them. It's quite presumptuous on your part to assume that ebikers don't get involved in some way with trail orgs or make efforts in areas such as environmentalism. When attitudes like the one you show are present I'm not surprised that people on ebikes don't consider getting involved with the greater mtb community.

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: craw

I kind of get this https://bikerumor.com/mondraker-marquez-edition-grommy-kids-bikes/ - that looks super fun.

But isn't this a bit short-sighted for a bike company? Isn't this just prepping kids to ride motorcycles?

I think so (and I think longterm such vehicles are bad for a variety of reasons, physiologically and psychologically speaking), but the real issue once more is that it is an "artificial", basically "useless" product designed and created with the sole intention of making more money.

Yeah, it confuses me a bit when people talk about how the batteries aren't an issue.

We're talking about a machine that requires no batteries that has had unnecessary batteries added to it.

Regardless of how much the problem of batteries is dismissed, it's still a problem that exists now to some degree where previously this problem was a zero.

_____________

Speaking strictly MTB. On the road of course it's possible that a person is replacing their car with a greener option.

Posted by: Hepcat

Speaking strictly MTB. On the road of course it's possible that a person is replacing their car with a greener option.

It seems like transport cycling is going full e-bike and lots of those same trips were being done with bicycles so I would assume a high % of those batteries are unnecessary as well.

Posted by: Vikb

It seems like transport cycling is going full e-bike and lots of those same trips were being done with bicycles so I would assume a high % of those batteries are unnecessary as well.

Any stats/data to support that or is it just an Vikb anecdotal observation from a place with a small population base that doesn't reflect greater society as a whole?