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ebikes on the Shore

Aug. 30, 2019, 8:42 p.m.
Posts: 33648
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

And BC government is only legislating for their land.

Aug. 31, 2019, 8:10 a.m.
Posts: 1992
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

Posted by: abuxton

According to this fresh article, fines in BC Parks can be up to $575. Effective immediately. Wow!

"The policy says that those with Class 1 e-bikes can ride on any B.C. Parks trail where mountain bikes or other cycling is already allowed, but those with Class 2 and 3 e-bikes can only ride on trails and roads designated for motorized vehicles."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-parks-ebike-policy-1.5262734?fbclid=IwAR2Zjw9rk2vujvBn_7aGIKI8y2a4JYPOvcwytVy9S_h7pONMyUm-ag3aw74

Yep, the BC government is basically calling Class-1 Emtbs , BICYCLES.

nope, what they're saying is they can use the same trails as bicycles. that not the same as what you suggest.

A distinction without a difference.

Aug. 31, 2019, 9:19 a.m.
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/us-secretary-of-the-interior-opens-national-park-trails-to-e-bikes.html

Cat amongst the pigeons...

The US Feds are proposing allowing e-bikes on National Park and BLM trails open to "regular" mountain bikes...

Team America -fuck, yeah!

Aug. 31, 2019, 10:32 a.m.
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: E-wok

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

Posted by: abuxton

According to this fresh article, fines in BC Parks can be up to $575. Effective immediately. Wow!

"The policy says that those with Class 1 e-bikes can ride on any B.C. Parks trail where mountain bikes or other cycling is already allowed, but those with Class 2 and 3 e-bikes can only ride on trails and roads designated for motorized vehicles."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-parks-ebike-policy-1.5262734?fbclid=IwAR2Zjw9rk2vujvBn_7aGIKI8y2a4JYPOvcwytVy9S_h7pONMyUm-ag3aw74

Yep, the BC government is basically calling Class-1 Emtbs , BICYCLES.

nope, what they're saying is they can use the same trails as bicycles. that not the same as what you suggest.

....and da Nile , isn’t just a river ;)

At this point, the most useful thing to do , is to place rouge directional signs , at the bottom of the trails you think might be problematic . Then, sit back and embrace the change, and perhaps pick a more important battle if you must . ✌🏽

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

....and da Nile , isn’t just a river ;)

At this point, the most useful thing to do , is to place rouge directional signs , at the bottom of the trails you think might be problematic . Then, sit back and embrace the change, and perhaps pick a more important battle if you must . ✌🏽

It seems like you haven't been following very closely as I'm not necessarily opposed to ebikes, but I do think there needs to be some clear rules around their use. What am I opposed to however is bullshit arguments being used to prop up one's stance on ebikes - whatever side of the table they happen to come from.

I have been , periodically , following this thread.

And as the tide is rapidly changing towards the acceptance of Emtbs here in Canada ( we’ve been behind the curve compared Europe the UK , and now The States), I’m noticing the conversation is becoming more Palatable as the irrational hatred, (MOSTLY based on loss of personal identity) , is subsiding.

It would be great to wrap up this discussion in a sensible manner , so we could all just continue to enjoy riding our bicycles.

So, as a brief recap of this verbose thread-what clear rules ( with the exception of directional trail signage ) would you, Syncro want to have implement on Class -1 eMtbs, that don’t already exist for acoustic bikes?


 Last edited by: E-wok on Aug. 31, 2019, 10:32 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 31, 2019, 11:28 a.m.
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: E-wok

So, as a brief recap of this verbose thread-what clear rules ( with the exception of directional trail signage ) would you, Syncro want to have implement on Class -1 eMtbs, that don’t already exist for acoustic bikes?

i've stated those ideas a few times in this thread. hate the term acoustic bikes btw, it's just stupid. trail signage, trail limitations for climbing, etiquette regarding passing. i'd also like to see a mandatory trail license or pass for all bikes (with the option to commit to say 3 days of volunteer labour to get a pass). enforcement could be a combo of live persons and rfid tags and trail counters. the biggest issue really comes down to the attitude of the rider, which can be a difficult isssue to deal with.

the bike companies also need to get on board as their current marketing is not doing a heck of a lot to allay the concerns a lot of people have. they also need to step up more in regards to trail maintenance and advocacy efforts as bike co's profit off the backs of volunteer labour.

Aug. 31, 2019, 11:50 a.m.
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

and ewok, save the "wrap up discussion in  a sensible manner" crap. your posts so far have haven't exactly been free of any back talk. you sound like a plant or shill for the marketing arm of an ebike co trying to sneakily sway opinion; it's disingenuous and stinks.

Aug. 31, 2019, 12:13 p.m.
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

So, as a brief recap of this verbose thread-what clear rules ( with the exception of directional trail signage ) would you, Syncro want to have implement on Class -1 eMtbs, that don’t already exist for acoustic bikes?

i've stated those ideas a few times in this thread. hate the term acoustic bikes btw, it's just stupid. trail signage, trail limitations for climbing, etiquette regarding passing. i'd also like to see a mandatory trail license or pass for all bikes (with the option to commit to say 3 days of volunteer labour to get a pass). enforcement could be a combo of live persons and rfid tags and trail counters. the biggest issue really comes down to the attitude of the rider, which can be a difficult isssue to deal with.

the bike companies also need to get on board as their current marketing is not doing a heck of a lot to allay the concerns a lot of people have. they also need to step up more in regards to trail maintenance and advocacy efforts as bike co's profit off the backs of volunteer labour.

“Stupid” is an opinion-sorry you’re  offended, it seems like a nice reference to me😁

I agree with the Directional trail signage - all the rest sounds a bit assuming. ( many Ebikers , formally acoustic riders- or still both , have contributed and continue to donate their time and money to local trails).

Again, Once you’ve spent a decent amount of time on a Ebike , you’ll realize the only exception is for informative, directional signage - and that the etiquette is the exactly the SAME for both an E and acoustic bikes. Super simple. 

A trail pass and licence for ALL bikes- yikes, I’m not touching that one!

Attitude has to do with the person on the bike- not what kinda bike they’re on.

As far as the bike companies being on board-did they do all of what you are suggesting for them to do now  , as when the DH  RM -7’s came out? 

They made profits then, and now. Same-same.

Aug. 31, 2019, 12:30 p.m.
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

So, as a brief recap of this verbose thread-what clear rules ( with the exception of directional trail signage ) would you, Syncro want to have implement on Class -1 eMtbs, that don’t already exist for acoustic bikes?

i've stated those ideas a few times in this thread. hate the term acoustic bikes btw, it's just stupid. trail signage, trail limitations for climbing, etiquette regarding passing. i'd also like to see a mandatory trail license or pass for all bikes (with the option to commit to say 3 days of volunteer labour to get a pass). enforcement could be a combo of live persons and rfid tags and trail counters. the biggest issue really comes down to the attitude of the rider, which can be a difficult isssue to deal with.

the bike companies also need to get on board as their current marketing is not doing a heck of a lot to allay the concerns a lot of people have. they also need to step up more in regards to trail maintenance and advocacy efforts as bike co's profit off the backs of volunteer labour.

“Stupid” is an opinion-sorry you’re offended, it seems like a nice reference to me😁 , and that’s how a refer to my 3 other vintage bikes.

I agree with the Directional trail signage - all the rest sounds a bit assuming. ( many Ebikers , formally acoustic riders- or still both , have contributed and continue to donate their time and money to local trails).

Again, Once you’ve spent a decent amount of time on a Ebike , you’ll realize the only exception is for informative, directional signage - and that the etiquette is the exactly the SAME for both an E and acoustic bikes. Super simple.

A trail pass and licence for ALL bikes- yikes, I’m not touching that one!

Attitude has to do with the person on the bike- not what kinda bike they’re on.

As far as the bike companies being on board-did they do all of what you are suggesting for them to do now , as when the DH RM -7’s came out?

They made profits then, and now. Same-same.

Aug. 31, 2019, 12:50 p.m.
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: E-wok

“Stupid” is an opinion-sorry you’re offended, it seems like a nice reference to me😁 , and that’s how a refer to my 3 other vintage bikes.

I agree with the Directional trail signage - all the rest sounds a bit assuming. ( many Ebikers , formally acoustic riders- or still both , have contributed and continue to donate their time and money to local trails).

Again, Once you’ve spent a decent amount of time on a Ebike , you’ll realize the only exception is for informative, directional signage - and that the etiquette is the exactly the SAME for both an E and acoustic bikes. Super simple.

A trail pass and licence for ALL bikes- yikes, I’m not touching that one!

Attitude has to do with the person on the bike- not what kinda bike they’re on.

As far as the bike companies being on board-did they do all of what you are suggesting for them to do now , as when the DH RM -7’s came out?

They made profits then, and now. Same-same.

not offended, but acoustic to describe a bicycle just sounds dumb. acoustic is a term used for sound and musical instruments - not bikes

etiquette is not exactly the same for ebikes and bikes tho, the much higher speeds, especially while climbing,dictates the need for extra care from the person riding an ebike.

re profits, i've argued the same in the past for regular bikes, the difference now is that ebikes allow for more laps hence the potential need for more maintenance.

again i'm not opposed to ebikes, but the discussion just needs to be real and the free for all attiutde that seems to follow ebike proponents is what puts a lot of people off them or hesitant of their acceptance.

Sept. 1, 2019, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

X 2 on the acoustic bike thing. So lame.

Just finished up a week-long MTB trip to the Kootenays and didn't see a single emtb. Don't think it's in the wheelhouse for most due to cost. Saw plenty of older guys manning up and climbing the steep ascents in the Nelson area. So at the moment it looks like this will be more of a Howe sound corridor issue where the money is plentiful, and the trails are crowded.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 2, 2019, 1:13 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 2, 2019, 3:17 p.m.
Posts: 1000
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

“Stupid” is an opinion-sorry you’re offended, it seems like a nice reference to me😁 , and that’s how a refer to my 3 other vintage bikes.

I agree with the Directional trail signage - all the rest sounds a bit assuming. ( many Ebikers , formally acoustic riders- or still both , have contributed and continue to donate their time and money to local trails).

Again, Once you’ve spent a decent amount of time on a Ebike , you’ll realize the only exception is for informative, directional signage - and that the etiquette is the exactly the SAME for both an E and acoustic bikes. Super simple.

A trail pass and licence for ALL bikes- yikes, I’m not touching that one!

Attitude has to do with the person on the bike- not what kinda bike they’re on.

As far as the bike companies being on board-did they do all of what you are suggesting for them to do now , as when the DH RM -7’s came out?

They made profits then, and now. Same-same.

not offended, but acoustic to describe a bicycle just sounds dumb. acoustic is a term used for sound and musical instruments - not bikes

etiquette is not exactly the same for ebikes and bikes tho, the much higher speeds, especially while climbing,dictates the need for extra care from the person riding an ebike.

re profits, i've argued the same in the past for regular bikes, the difference now is that ebikes allow for more laps hence the potential need for more maintenance.

again i'm not opposed to ebikes, but the discussion just needs to be real and the free for all attiutde that seems to follow ebike proponents is what puts a lot of people off them or hesitant of their acceptance.

All of what Syncro suggests is reasonable.

Firstly, lets drop ebike and acoustic bike. I still think bicycle and emoped is more accurate. Alternatively we can call them bikes and electric simulated cycling machines?

With regards to etiquette. The rules have always been that the person giving more effort has the right of way, generally the uphill rider. Emppeds make this confusing. I would suggest that the emoped has to give right of way and wait for safe opportunities to pass.

As for the bike companies, I am not against emopeds but I resent the marketing of emopeds as the "evolution" of the bicycle. That is the equivalent of saying that segways are the evolution of walking. Neither is true and I resent that the bike manufacturers are trying to piggy back on all the hard work that has been done by trail advocacy groups by marketing their contraptions as the "evolution" of bikes when they very well know that there is a whole host of issues that will ensue. It is a sloppy and careless approach and the emoped riders should expect to have to make up the difference between the "dream" the bike companies are selling and the reality of emopeds on bike trails.

Sept. 2, 2019, 5:28 p.m.
Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

It seems your “issues” are slowly being debunked as we move along as well.

The terms bike and e-bike do just fine.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on Sept. 2, 2019, 5:37 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 2, 2019, 5:33 p.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

I live in the Koots, E bikes are out here too, you just didn’t see them.

Sept. 2, 2019, 8:41 p.m.
Posts: 33648
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/02/national-park-service-expands-e-bike-use/

Sept. 2, 2019, 9:26 p.m.
Posts: 1617
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

Why would you say that? One of the few and probably main issue I have with ebikes is that they give people the ability to go significantly faster on flat and uphills trails where passing is most likely to occur. With a higher speed differential the potential of some sort of collision goes up. This is especially true if the person on an ebike is being impatient and is focused mostly on their ride and not giving much consideration to other trail uses. IMHO this is exactly why land managers should step forward with some set of ground rules for trail users to follow and publicize those rules on the trail with adequate signage.

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