ebikes on the Shore

Posted by: tashi

I think the regulations on trails are largely self-enforced, ie: the users community standard tends to determine what people do, not formal enforcement and oversight by the authorities. This is why I believe it’s important that we, as the mountain bike community, decide if we want to accept mountain mopeds as mountain bikes or treat them as something different. 

That’s what the productive part of this thread is about to me - the name calling, whataboutism and proposals for extensive, nuanced and enforced regulation are largely extraneous.

I agree that some regs are self-enforced, but I think that comes down to knowledge of the regs and the perceived risk . I tend to disagree though that the rule has to be an all or none, I think there is some room for a compromise to be made. There are lots of nuanced rules now that seem to work relatively ok.

Posted by: FLATCH

Then this whole thread is a mute point. Total free for all.🤘

Looks like that is what will go down. How does one tell an ebike which is over this imaginary line? I don't own one but please do tell. I will leave the self regulation to the ebikers. 

Maybe this whole coming issue is reason why BLM land managers in the USA said no ebikes? They could see this coming?

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: tashi

I think the regulations on trails are largely self-enforced, ie: the users community standard tends to determine what people do, not formal enforcement and oversight by the authorities. This is why I believe it’s important that we, as the mountain bike community, decide if we want to accept mountain mopeds as mountain bikes or treat them as something different. 

That’s what the productive part of this thread is about to me - the name calling, whataboutism and proposals for extensive, nuanced and enforced regulation are largely extraneous.

I agree that some regs are self-enforced, but I think that comes down to knowledge of the regs and the perceived risk . I tend to disagree though that the rule has to be an all or none, I think there is some room for a compromise to be made. There are lots of nuanced rules now that seem to work relatively ok.

That’s why I said “largely” self-enforced.

Where does the Kranked e-bike kits fall into this? 

Sounds like some of these e-bike liberal cucks need some teaching via fists 👊🏽

Posted by: Endur-Bro

Where does the Kranked e-bike kits fall into this? 

Sounds like some of these e-bike liberal cucks need some teaching via fists 👊🏽

Falls into the same mindset as that we aren't supposed to ride Darkside. Well who is going to stop me? Going to be interesting to come back to this thread in a few years.

Posted tashi

That’s why I said “largely” self-enforced.

yeah, I got that part. you seem to have been none at all when it comes to ebikes tho. any suggestions of your own as to where a compromise might be made?

Posted by: Brocklanders

Falls into the same mindset as that we aren't supposed to ride Darkside. Well who is going to stop me? Going to be interesting to come back to this thread in a few years.

That’s one thing that makes this debate interesting. Some of the loudest opponents of ebikes seem to feel it’s ok to ride wherever the want.

Posted by: syncro

Posted tashi

That’s why I said “largely” self-enforced.

yeah, I got that part. you seem to have been none at all when it comes to ebikes tho. any suggestions of your own as to where a compromise might be made?

As I’ve suggested in previous posts, I want them excluded from mountain bike trails until they advocate for access. Compromise can come out of that process. Exactly like what we had to do to get our official access.

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: mtbman99

This is the issue with ebikes how do you stop these guys vs specific categories.

You aren't going to stop them. It's got pedals and so it's good to go.

It’s only legal if it’s pedal assist, so no it’s not ready to go. Go read some of their comments most guys run them no chain or  rear d. Pedals are to make it appear street legal. Those bikes are not legal in most places without proper insurance.

The provincial policy provides an EXPLICIT classification of bikes based on pedal-input and top speed.

The policy also indicates attention to inspections and enforcement as needed, AND for the policy to be revisited after a few years based on how things go .Yes, self-enforcement will still largely be the norm, but that will include peer-enforcement, club-enforcement, and district enforcement who will all take cues from provincial policy.

So yeah. Seems to me that ebike riders will be shooting themselves in the face if they ride over-powered bikes on the trails or cause other problems...especially over the next few years as provincial policy is assessed and reviewed.

It also seems that the best thing to do for those concerned, is pay attention and make note of where and when problems occur. Sure, you could whine and moan, but that won't mean much to the agencies and personnel that actually shape policy.

It will be really interesting to see how well ebikers are able to keep their gratification in check and ride responsibly during this period outlined in the policy. Of course, I'm still not seeing any real positive leadership or advocacy from ebike sellers or product reps about responsible integration.  I asked some personally reasonable questions several times about directional riding and solving insurance issues for land access but have only heard more marketing about getting rad and you have to ride one and so forth.

Posted by: tashi

As I’ve suggested in previous posts, I want them excluded from mountain bike trails until they advocate for access. Compromise can come out of that process. Exactly like what we had to do to get our official access.

That’s fair, and I’d thought you’d mention it before but wasn’t sure. 

The only thing to ad is who’s to say people on ebikes haven’t done some trail advocacy before or aren’t currently doing some?

Wish I could give Cereal Killa reps for their last post. 

Companies flogging e-bikes have done a great job of putting e-bikes in the hands of their puppets to spam all over social media. They’ve also done a great job of hooking local builders up with a deal on one.

Posted by: Endur-Bro

Think of how much a workout one could get if they left their e-bike in “OFF” mode! 🤔

😅

Of course, I'm still not seeing any real positive leadership or advocacy from ebike sellers or product reps about responsible integration. I asked some personally reasonable questions several times about directional riding and solving insurance issues for land access but have only heard more marketing about getting rad and you have to ride one and so forth.

Indeed. I spoke to a Giant rep at Crankworx last year and he was quite happy to hand off education about rules and responsible access to the bike shops that would be selling these things. The local bike shop has responsibility, but it's the manufacturers who are heavily pushing ebikes and should bare a huge amount of the burden when it comes to the issues they raise, avoiding conflict and responsible access.

Ahh cute, I'm sure he really cares, doubt it. I wonder how many people brought their bikes back to the shops wanting a refund in Washington state last year? After they said no to ebikes on the best single track trail areas in Issaquah. Buyers in the Seattle area must have been stoked.