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ebikes on the Shore

July 24, 2019, 12:58 a.m.
Posts: 2080
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: syncro

so, i guess that's that with the ebike debate now.

checkmate


 Last edited by: Sethimus on July 24, 2019, 12:58 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
July 24, 2019, 7:57 a.m.
Posts: 42
Joined: Dec. 1, 2008

Posted by: andy-eunson

My neighbour has a Specialized Turbo Levo. Apparently it has a walk mode where there is some assist limited throttle to help walk that behemoth up difficult bits.

That feature is pretty standard on ebikes of all kinds and is aimed at the original target audience (seniors / unfit / poor health). Comes default as part of the motor and control assembly.

My grandma loves it for helping push her ebike when it is loaded down with groceries.

July 24, 2019, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 488
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Timer

Posted by: andy-eunson

My neighbour has a Specialized Turbo Levo. Apparently it has a walk mode where there is some assist limited throttle to help walk that behemoth up difficult bits.

That feature is pretty standard on ebikes of all kinds and is aimed at the original target audience (seniors / unfit / poor health). Comes default as part of the motor and control assembly.

My grandma loves it for helping push her ebike when it is loaded down with groceries.

"Gran's Groceries" should be the name of that setting, with a suitable icon embossed on the display.

July 24, 2019, 9:21 a.m.
Posts: 1382
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: syncro

so, i guess that's that with the ebike debate now.

checkmate

Have to say nice play by Rocky. Hard to say to Digger he can't ride the trails he built. From a directorial/marketing point of view must have been a toss up as to what type of bike Wade should be on. Play it as the guy on the ebike can ride with people on bicycles, or riding with an ex pro shredding on the ebike. They went with the latter, sell way more units that way.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on July 24, 2019, 9:22 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
July 24, 2019, 10:11 a.m.
Posts: 52
Joined: Aug. 11, 2015

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: syncro

so, i guess that's that with the ebike debate now.

checkmate

Interesting they release that vid same time Pinkbike goes full ebike coverage. Now where did I put my tinfoil hat .........

July 24, 2019, 10:30 a.m.
Posts: 897
Joined: March 18, 2017

My trials moto self identifies as an e-bike. 

All Fromme belongs to us.

July 24, 2019, 1:15 p.m.
Posts: 783
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Yeah its all marketing and Rocky and the (wonderful) people in their videos are all conflicted.....I think that we are all thankful to Dig and those who started all of this....

Wade is on his ebike all the time. Gully and a whole bunch of other IG brand reps are on theirs. This isnt about one specific person because yes, you can tell Dig that sorry an ebike cant ride on that trail due to policy if that is the way this goes. This is about the big picture and those of you who are arguing from your own soapbox because you dont see an end to your ability to climb whatever you want are all conflicted too. This is about what the right decision is, not what about what will benefit any one specific person or even segment of "riders".

That said, today, I dont think that we need a hard ruling on the matter today. If ebikers start to cause problems then it will have to be dealt with but Im not convinced that the world will change. NSMBA will have to wrap its head around the fact that its average riders use of the trails may increase A LOT (due to more laps per person) but that's its puzzle to figure out. Im not so sure that the the masses will flock to the forests because of ebikes, but those who do ride them will certainly cover a lot more distance.

My biggest concern is that sensitive trails that are challenging to get to will no longer be protected. In part, thats up to those who use those trails to stay silent about them.

EDIT: And Ive not forgotten that Ive seen a video from Rocky about ebikes filmed in what Id call a very sensitive "protected by a climb" zone. Shame on Rocky for doing that. Exactly my point and biggest worry.


 Last edited by: Ddean on July 24, 2019, 4:08 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
July 24, 2019, 4:01 p.m.
Posts: 488
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if these early ebikes were less powerful and distinctly pedelecs with an emphasis on 'taking the edge off'. Instead we have these mini mopeds that basically eliminate climbing and sit uncomfortably close to e-MX despite the pedalling.

July 24, 2019, 8:51 p.m.
Posts: 1382
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: craw

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if these early ebikes were less powerful and distinctly pedelecs with an emphasis on 'taking the edge off'. Instead we have these mini mopeds that basically eliminate climbing and sit uncomfortably close to e-MX despite the pedalling.

You can see in this vid from the 4-5 min mark that is not the case. 

https://youtu.be/ED0m3CbRLcI

July 24, 2019, 11 p.m.
Posts: 488
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: craw

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if these early ebikes were less powerful and distinctly pedelecs with an emphasis on 'taking the edge off'. Instead we have these mini mopeds that basically eliminate climbing and sit uncomfortably close to e-MX despite the pedalling.

You can see in this vid from the 4-5 min mark that is not the case. 

Seems to me that video made my point. I think they make climbing too easy but maybe I'm weird in wanting to go out there and better myself systematically. My point was that if these bikes gave less assist, didn't make it quite so easy, didn't make the slippery slope to full on e-mx quite so clear, that people wouldn't be having such a hard time with them.

July 25, 2019, 12:19 a.m.
Posts: 42
Joined: Dec. 1, 2008

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: craw

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if these early ebikes were less powerful and distinctly pedelecs with an emphasis on 'taking the edge off'. Instead we have these mini mopeds that basically eliminate climbing and sit uncomfortably close to e-MX despite the pedalling.

You can see in this vid from the 4-5 min mark that is not the case. 

I have ridden ebikes (touring/commuting variants) and i tend to agree with craw. In the highest assist setting, i went up the steepest, hardest road climbs in the area at max speed (25km/H) while putting in the same effort it takes to bring a normal bike to that speed on flat ground. Max assist more than quadruples your power (up to the limit of the motor). Drains the battery really fast, but batteries are getting better and e-mtbs come with far bigger batteries than touring bikes.

July 25, 2019, 6:48 a.m.
Posts: 1373
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: Ddean

... This is about the big picture and those of you who are arguing from your own soapbox because you dont see an end to your ability to climb whatever you want are all conflicted too. This is about what the right decision is, not what about what will benefit any one specific person or even segment of "riders"...

I won't speak for anyone else, but I am very aware that my time climbing "whatever I want" (which I already can't do obviously) is limited.  I've faced this possibility before due to severe injury.  I KNOW that someday I won't be able to mountain bike anymore.  

Like you say, this is "about the big picture".  Doesn't effect my concerns re trail experience and impact to access.  Your understanding of the issue will always be limited if you continue to make assumptions about those of us who have concerns about the impact that the motorization of our sport could have. 

If we focus on issues, and instead of judging scorn on the "other guy" ("lazy" mopeders, "elitist" mountain bikers, etc.) we attempt to understand their viewpoint, we might actually be able to get somewhere.

July 25, 2019, 8:08 a.m.
Posts: 666
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: Timer

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: craw

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if these early ebikes were less powerful and distinctly pedelecs with an emphasis on 'taking the edge off'. Instead we have these mini mopeds that basically eliminate climbing and sit uncomfortably close to e-MX despite the pedalling.

You can see in this vid from the 4-5 min mark that is not the case.

I have ridden ebikes (touring/commuting variants) and i tend to agree with craw. In the highest assist setting, i went up the steepest, hardest road climbs in the area at max speed (25km/H) while putting in the same effort it takes to bring a normal bike to that speed on flat ground. Max assist more than quadruples your power (up to the limit of the motor). Drains the battery really fast, but batteries are getting better and e-mtbs come with far bigger batteries than touring bikes.

Even the steepest road climbs don’t really compare to steep single track. Pretty much impossible to climb anywhere near top speed, not even half speed.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on July 25, 2019, 8:12 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
July 25, 2019, 8:36 a.m.
Posts: 783
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: Ddean

... This is about the big picture and those of you who are arguing from your own soapbox because you dont see an end to your ability to climb whatever you want are all conflicted too. This is about what the right decision is, not what about what will benefit any one specific person or even segment of "riders"...

I won't speak for anyone else, but I am very aware that my time climbing "whatever I want" (which I already can't do obviously) is limited.  I've faced this possibility before due to severe injury.  I KNOW that someday I won't be able to mountain bike anymore.  

Like you say, this is "about the big picture".  Doesn't effect my concerns re trail experience and impact to access.  Your understanding of the issue will always be limited if you continue to make assumptions about those of us who have concerns about the impact that the motorization of our sport could have. 

If we focus on issues, and instead of judging scorn on the "other guy" ("lazy" mopeders, "elitist" mountain bikers, etc.) we attempt to understand their viewpoint, we might actually be able to get somewhere.

Sounds like we are on the same page in that our views are not impacted by our own ability to climb to the areas that we want and that the right decision (whatever that may be) is one that is based upon the big picture. We may differ on what the "right decision" appears to be (not sure, but maybe we do), but both of us are working off of our own assumptions right now as no one really knows...... 

My current expectation is that not much will change with ebikes: Number of riders will likely stay similar. Where they ride will likely stay similar. I dont believe that we are likely to have conflicts on the trails as a result of ebikes although I myself have not been pleased to learn that the bike Im pulling over for on GSM every now and then is an ebike (I will stop doing that if I know its an ebike as its disruptive to my ride, and if you're on an ebike on a single track climbing trail...well, that's your decision to be there, you can turn down your boost and enjoy the view as you pedal). I think that those on ebikes are going to put more miles on the trails than those without, but hey, the popular trails are armored to hell already!

Since I dont envision bad stuff happening as a result of ebikes, I feel that people should ride what they want.My opinion will change if my assumption (that nothing will change) is flawed.

July 25, 2019, 10:08 p.m.
Posts: 91
Joined: March 1, 2017

Posted by: Ddean

NSMBA will have to wrap its head around the fact that its average riders use of the trails may increase A LOT (due to more laps per person) but that's its puzzle to figure out.

Why is it up to under-resourced trail organisations to figure out the puzzle? People doing the extra riding should get off their bikes (E or otherwise) and help. It's not someone else's problem. If we don't collectively look after the trails, they all be fucked. That's my issue with E bikes.

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