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ebikes on the Shore

June 5, 2019, 10:13 a.m.
Posts: 1906
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

if you all bitch about ebikes already, what are you gonna do when these things pop up on the shore?

https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/special-edition-sur-ron-electric-bike/

if it's not pedal assist but throttle control then it can fuck off from the trails. despite what the video claims - that's a motorcycle.

June 5, 2019, 10:58 a.m.
Posts: 204
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Posted by: Kieran

I won't be buying one for a very long time but...

What if I buy an ebike and commute to my riding destination and never use my truck again for travel or as a shuttle option?

Does that entitle me to shred where I want? Is this a possibility in the future for a big number of riders in the Van area? Fewer vehicles on the road would be a good thing, right?

Well it certainly wouldn't address maintenance, conflict or access/permission issues... So no entitlement from where I stand.

June 5, 2019, 11:16 a.m.
Posts: 2118
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: Kieran

I won't be buying one for a very long time but...

What if I buy an ebike and commute to my riding destination and never use my truck again for travel or as a shuttle option?

Does that entitle me to shred where I want? Is this a possibility in the future for a big number of riders in the Van area? Fewer vehicles on the road would be a good thing, right?

Most of us who are concerned about the impact of mountain mopeds are concerned about the official response, safety, user experience and trail wear.  How you get to the trails is irrelevant, no matter how many eco points you think you're scoring.  Save that shit for your social media posts. #ecoconsumerism

June 5, 2019, 11:35 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Sethimus

if you all bitch about ebikes already, what are you gonna do when these things pop up on the shore?

https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/special-edition-sur-ron-electric-bike/

if it's not pedal assist but throttle control then it can fuck off from the trails. despite what the video claims - that's a motorcycle.

And so we circle back to once again, who is going to regulate which electric bikes are permitted? Yes.. I know they classified into different classes, but you think anyone is going to give a shit? This is why COTA, BLM, and other Assns in the States have said piss off to all. Self regulation won't work, its so obvious. But Ya doesn't that bike look like fun? You can buy a pedal upgrade too, makes it a bike right? 

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-pedal-system/

love this thread


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on June 5, 2019, 11:40 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
June 5, 2019, 1:32 p.m.
Posts: 5
Joined: April 22, 2017

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Sethimus

if you all bitch about ebikes already, what are you gonna do when these things pop up on the shore?

https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/special-edition-sur-ron-electric-bike/

if it's not pedal assist but throttle control then it can fuck off from the trails. despite what the video claims - that's a motorcycle.

And so we circle back to once again, who is going to regulate which electric bikes are permitted? Yes.. I know they classified into different classes, but you think anyone is going to give a shit? This is why COTA, BLM, and other Assns in the States have said piss off to all. Self regulation won't work, its so obvious. But Ya doesn't that bike look like fun? You can buy a pedal upgrade too, makes it a bike right? 

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-pedal-system/

love this thread

Same could be said then for riders shredding down climbing trails, skidding through corners, giving right of way to climbers.... 

Self regulating does work but keep looking for reasons to hate.

June 5, 2019, 2:56 p.m.
Posts: 816
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: craw

I think it's interesting that you think these e-bike-making companies, almost all of which refuse to vary seat tube angle and chainstay length by size, are suddenly qualified to tell me that I need a motor on my mountain bike.

qualified to tell you what you need? nah, that's not what I was thinking -  it was a tongue in cheek comment. what is curious though is most of the reasons being put forth against ebikes seem to be focused around trail damage or user conflict and not about an individuals preference to actually pedal and do the work themselves. imo i think that's probably the most key determinant in whether someone will eventually end up on an ebike if/when they become more socially acceptable.

I totally took your comment as tongue in cheek. TBH I'm not against ebikes necessarily. I just don't like how they've chosen to build and promote them. I wish manufacturers made them less powerful and less obviously about to morph into e-dirtbikes.

I haven't seen one that even comes close to something I'd want to ride, let alone fit me. I've never been motivated by making riding easier; I want my rides to be longer, steeper, tie more loops together, crazier technical climbs. I like climbing precisely because it's difficult. I don't like chairlifts and shuttling precisely because removing climbing removes a key source of pleasure and satisfaction from my riding experience. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5diMImYIIA

June 5, 2019, 4:24 p.m.
Posts: 1906
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Brocklanders

And so we circle back to once again, who is going to regulate which electric bikes are permitted? Yes.. I know they classified into different classes, but you think anyone is going to give a shit? This is why COTA, BLM, and other Assns in the States have said piss off to all. Self regulation won't work, its so obvious. But Ya doesn't that bike look like fun? You can buy a pedal upgrade too, makes it a bike right? 

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-pedal-system/

love this thread

same can be said for how things are now or if ebikes are banned. if there is no level of enforcement then people will do what they want to anyways. for example, how many people ride the darkside even though it's off limits? even when the park rangers are monitoring things there are still people taking their chances. 

I tend to disagree that self regulation won't work if the right culture is developed. Same thing applies to getting people out to dig our help with advocacy work; develop the right culture and people will more than likely to follow the rules than not.

June 5, 2019, 4:31 p.m.
Posts: 1906
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: craw

I totally took your comment as tongue in cheek. TBH I'm not against ebikes necessarily. I just don't like how they've chosen to build and promote them. I wish manufacturers made them less powerful and less obviously about to morph into e-dirtbikes.

I haven't seen one that even comes close to something I'd want to ride, let alone fit me. I've never been motivated by making riding easier; I want my rides to be longer, steeper, tie more loops together, crazier technical climbs. I like climbing precisely because it's difficult. I don't like chairlifts and shuttling precisely because removing climbing removes a key source of pleasure and satisfaction from my riding experience. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat??

Yeah, I think a bike that was lower power and longer lasting in terms of battery juice that was designed simply to help people up the hill or commute to the hill would be a hit. Something that say had a max assist speed of 15-20kph would probably solve a lot of the complaints about shitty passes and uphill trail roosting, etc. Wanna go faster? Then you have to work for it. Can't go very fast? Then the low power motor gives you just enough of a boost to make the difficult stuff possible.

June 5, 2019, 6:04 p.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: Aug. 1, 2018

Posted by: syncro

same can be said for how things are now or if ebikes are banned. if there is no level of enforcement then people will do what they want to anyways. for example, how many people ride the darkside even though it's off limits? even when the park rangers are monitoring things there are still people taking their chances. 

I see parallels with other situations where ease of access is a huge determining factor in how often an event occurs. If things are easy and convenient they'll happen more often. There will always be people who don't respect the rules for their own personal enjoyment or advantage, doesn't matter if it's riding closed or off limit trails, doping etc. The easier it is to do, the more it'll happen. I bet that Lord of the Squirrels will see many more ebikes on it this summer compared with last, even though it's now more widely known that it's not allowed, simply due to there being easier access to ebikes and more people owning them.

June 5, 2019, 6:34 p.m.
Posts: 1906
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: BeesIntheTrap

I see parallels with other situations where ease of access is a huge determining factor in how often an event occurs. If things are easy and convenient they'll happen more often. There will always be people who don't respect the rules for their own personal enjoyment or advantage, doesn't matter if it's riding closed or off limit trails, doping etc. The easier it is to do, the more it'll happen. I bet that Lord of the Squirrels will see many more ebikes on it this summer compared with last, even though it's now more widely known that it's not allowed, simply due to there being easier access to ebikes and more people owning them.

For sure ease of access makes a difference, but who knows how much more often it will happen? That's where I think culture plays a big part. 

I agree that LOTS will probably see more ebikes, especially with Norona telling everyone they can legally go up there.

June 5, 2019, 9:06 p.m.
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: BeesIntheTr

For sure ease of access makes a difference, but who knows how much more often it will happen? That's where I think culture plays a big part. 

I agree that LOTS will probably see more ebikes, especially with Norona telling everyone they can legally go up there.

It is my understanding that the Ministry of Forests Land And Natural Resources has said no ebikes there.

June 6, 2019, 2:16 p.m.
Posts: 204
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Posted by: andy-eunson

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: BeesIntheTr

For sure ease of access makes a difference, but who knows how much more often it will happen? That's where I think culture plays a big part. 

I agree that LOTS will probably see more ebikes, especially with Norona telling everyone they can legally go up there.

It is my understanding that the Ministry of Forests Land And Natural Resources has said no ebikes there.

I know that, at the very least, WORCA has taken that stance with their latest program (despite opening up a lot of their system to ebikes). I'd be interested to know if that was based on fundamental agreements or guidance from the Ministry.

Even last year when WORCA released their survey to user groups, trying to get a stance on how people felt on the matter... Lots of people's reactions were way over the top. A whole lot of "I'll ride my ebike all over Sproatt, there's nothing you can do to stop me".  I've heard they're considering a maintenance hut of sorts up there. Perhaps they'll use it for some tip-of-the-iceberg enforcement purposes.

June 6, 2019, 3 p.m.
Posts: 409
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

One has to think that with the return of grizzlies to that area, one was spotted last week near Rainbow Lake, that the Ministry will want to limit access. Norona is correct that WORCA does not the ability to ban anything, but the Ministry does. Sproatt was shut down last fall due to the presence of a bear as were the hiking trails further up the valley. Now that the province has classified ebikes into three categories I think that will change though. Class one ebikes that only engage the motor while pedalling and have no throttle and a speed limit of 32 kph(?) will be allowed all places mountain bikes are allowed unless otherwise prohibited. I for one do not think we need to grow the sport or the number of people who can get up the alpine. I don’t really support further alpine trails either. There are lots of fantastic trails in the trees already and I think those are better places to spend resources on trail building and maintenance.

June 6, 2019, 4:03 p.m.
Posts: 334
Joined: June 28, 2011

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: Kieran

I won't be buying one for a very long time but...

What if I buy an ebike and commute to my riding destination and never use my truck again for travel or as a shuttle option?

Does that entitle me to shred where I want? Is this a possibility in the future for a big number of riders in the Van area? Fewer vehicles on the road would be a good thing, right?

Most of us who are concerned about the impact of mountain mopeds are concerned about the official response, safety, user experience and trail wear.  How you get to the trails is irrelevant, no matter how many eco points you think you're scoring.  Save that shit for your social media posts. #ecoconsumerism

But if I'm commuting 45 mins each way then I'd probably only ride the same distance in the forest as I would if drove there.

I'm not saying that if you did use them to get to the trails that it makes them valid. I'm just putting it out there that this could be a possibility for a lot of people.

There are two sides to the whole argument but some people like their politics are so polarized that its a closed book. I'd rather be more open minded about these things. :)

June 6, 2019, 4:26 p.m.
Posts: 1906
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Kieran

There are two sides to the whole argument but some people like their politics are so polarized that its a closed book. I'd rather be more open minded about these things. :)

Get that man a prize from the top shelf.

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