Posted by: D-man
Posted by: mtbman99
Argue all you want, stick your head in the sand name call etc but the bikes are here to stay. Trail organizations will need to get on board with signage at trailheads to help inform ebike riders on proper etiquette.
Hopefully just like on BLM MTB trails in the USA the signs say no ebikes, they foresee the issues at hand.
Posted by: FLATCH
By your own statement trail organizations don’t seem to have much say as most areas are crown land.
What they wish and what is reality are two different things. I don’t see any grey areas.
You misunderstood me then, and saying most areas are on crown land is just another broad statement that doesn't capture the scope of the issue. Allowing the Orgs to act in accordance to their organization's best interests, and in accordance to agreements with Land Owner/Managers is the basis of what's allowed the amazing trail centers we now have, to grow and flourish. To me these relationships have been absolutely key in allowing growth in areas where there riding zones are in private land or mixed (private and crown, like KCTS).
If you're ( the royal You're) keen on short-circiuting this relationship by pointing to a preliminary legislation (which will be adjusted after the trial period), then that's "your" prerogative. I think it's harmful to the sport to turn a blind eye to the details of current legislation or down-play the established system of advocacy and maintenance. Assuming that "since they've sold 1000's of the things, it's reality" doesn't do justice to the issue, or give proper respect to the the Orgs that are only trying to manage their resources and agreements.
Is the "but they have been accepted in Europe" argument even valid? You can't really compare riding doubletrack and alpine bike park through farmer's fields that are already serviced by paved roads and chairlifts where the wildlife have been scared away to what we have going on here. Look how sparse Austria is on Trailforks! They probably aren't even allowed to ride singletrack outside of a bike park there! Why did Rocky Mountain have to spec flat bars and semi slick Continentals in order to sell bikes in Germany? Because mountain biking is different over there.
Posted by: peterk
Is the "but they have been accepted in Europe" argument even valid? You can't really compare riding doubletrack and alpine bike park through farmer's fields that are already serviced by paved roads and chairlifts where the wildlife have been scared away to what we have going on here. Look how sparse Austria is on Trailforks! They probably aren't even allowed to ride singletrack outside of a bike park there! Why did Rocky Mountain have to spec flat bars and semi slick Continentals in order to sell bikes in Germany? Because mountain biking is different over there.
Agree fully. The monoski was really popular in Europe but didn't really catch on here.
Posted by: D-man
Posted by: mtbman99
I think this is the crux of the issue for most and it’s how do you stop non CAT 1 ebikes. If you say no motors that’s relatively easy to deal with but once there is a motor how is it dealt with. Or in a few years if industry creeps the speeds up a notch.
They want to sell these and will be looking for an advantage over the competition be that in distance or speed or both.
Again more what ifs.
How do you stop people from skidding corners? Building rogue trails?Riding hiking trails? Tossing garbage out the window? Educate them and continue to do so.
Kinda like the IMBA, they have pounded it into so many people heads you need 100 switchbacks per km of trail that it is a standard.
Argue all you want, stick your head in the sand name call etc but the bikes are here to stay. Trail organizations will need to get on board with signage at trailheads to help inform ebike riders on proper etiquette.
It’s cool you are into ebikes and are passionate about them Dman but I have issues with what it will become since they are here and the issues that they will cause to the trail network. Sticking my head in the sand is pretending that there won’t be issues and things will be sunshine and roses. There are already throttle kits available, 2wd versions and that’s now. If you are looking to the future you need to plan and think ahead of how to deal with those issues.
Posted by: TheWasp
https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/whistler/how-now-brown-pow/Content?oid=13878228
High on opinion, aside from racer wanna be’s chewing up trails, very low on fact.
Posted by: FLATCH
High on opinion, aside from racer wanna be’s chewing up trails, very low on fact.
Opinion piece yes, but the author raises a number of valid and important points. There’s a lot of people getting emotionally hurt over that article and failing to recognize some of the things the mtb community needs to address.
One of the most often used rebuttals against the anti ebike arguments are that it's "a question of education and ass holes are everywhere". Which is somewhat true, but if the argument of "well, its Crown land, the trail org can't stop me riding there" is going to be used as well, that's a very short sighted and asshole move. Just because something is technically allowed doesn't mean the views of those that lobbied, designed, built and maintain the trail(s) should be ignored.
I hopped on a Cube version a year or so ago. Same thing doing 30km/h in Boost with no effort into the pedals.
Like motor driven sports every year/model has m0ar power year after year.
I thought UROC doesn’t allow e-bikes on their trails?
Saw on my FB feed e-moped bikes on “The Chair” “Race Rocks” “Further Burger”
The bike companies hooking builders up with e-mopeds are making a strong play.
I was in such pain climbing No Quarter yesterday that I didn't realize that I was pulling over to let an ebike past! That thing was gone up the hill before I was back in my pedals. The pain was real.
I was doing a road ride up Seymour when at the top of the last switchback (CBC lot) I spied in my peripheral the distinct shape of an e mountain biker whizzing up the hill. I'm no snob, especially when it relates to shuttle trails, so I didn't mind. But nevertheless as he passed me I was surprised to see that this was no $10K wunder(e)bike, but a decade old Specialized with an ehub retrofitted on. Get it!!!
Posted by: BeesIntheTrap
One of the most often used rebuttals against the anti ebike arguments are that it's "a question of education and ass holes are everywhere". Which is somewhat true, but if the argument of "well, its Crown land, the trail org can't stop me riding there" is going to be used as well, that's a very short sighted and asshole move. Just because something is technically allowed doesn't mean the views of those that lobbied, designed, built and maintain the trail(s) should be ignored.
Like Norona using images from unsanctioned trails somewhere around Squamish to promote his ebike rental company? Gold. Nice views up there, would he mind if they get shut down when the hordes of Vancouver folk (me) and tourists start hammering up there?
I agree, the "it's fun/you haven't tried it/I can keep up with my spouse/I get more laps in and I'm a busy parent/it's inevitable/too late" entitlement arguments with no actual thought toward solutions is pathetic.
Posted by: BeesIntheTrap
One of the most often used rebuttals against the anti ebike arguments are that it's "a question of education and ass holes are everywhere". Which is somewhat true, but if the argument of "well, its Crown land, the trail org can't stop me riding there" is going to be used as well, that's a very short sighted and asshole move. Just because something is technically allowed doesn't mean the views of those that lobbied, designed, built and maintain the trail(s) should be ignored.
Yup, ultimately it's the people who are doing the work of advocacy and trail building are the ones who should have the most say in how the trails are used. I think it's important the land managers recognize this. I also think it's important that there are no knee jerk reactions to regulating ebikes simply because of perceived "threat" or a few bad anecdotal stories. It cuts both ways which is why the topic is so hard to sort out as there are highly polarized and emotional arguments being played out on each side which means that few people are willing to have a broader scope and look at all facets of it. Hardly anyone is willing to look at middle ground as they're mostly interested in winning at all costs.
So .. waiting for friend to show up at the tennis courts on Breamar this eve some guy giving an ebike to someone to demo.. He says "make sure you are all set before you start pedaling, this thing will really take off, also wait until you are used to riding it before you put in in boost mode, you don't even have to pedal thing rips!" This girl on the bike starts to spin the crank and thing takes off like a rocket. If these things really were pedal assist I wouldn't think they suck so bad, but that's all a farce. I might as well buy an electric dirtbike start riding the trails here.. who gives a fuck right?
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