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ebikes on the Shore

May 10, 2019, 6:52 a.m.
Posts: 5
Joined: April 22, 2017

Posted by: Hepcat

Dismayed to discover during yesterdays ride that both the guys who ride e-bikes at my local (highly sensitive) trail have now pulled the cranks off. 🤢

Just throttle.

So they sit the entire ride? No pedals= no ride on trails imo. Did you talk to them about it?

May 10, 2019, 9:26 a.m.
Posts: 1248
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

One of the bikes was there at the trail head, pegs were installed. 

Not really, not interested. I said, "is that a motorcycle'. His buddy said "told ya so", and then he rolled it away back to his truck.

May 10, 2019, 9:57 a.m.
Posts: 679
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Hepcat

One of the bikes was there at the trail head, pegs were installed. 

Not really, not interested. I said, "is that a motorcycle'. His buddy said "told ya so", and then he rolled it away back to his truck.

lol, that’s hilarious.

May 10, 2019, 5:15 p.m.
Posts: 188
Joined: March 14, 2017

public shaming on that for sure

May 10, 2019, 8:15 p.m.
Posts: 632
Joined: March 25, 2011

Posted by: Ddean

Up the climbing route or Mtn Hwy to 7th shouldn't be that different (in time).

No Quarter is 6km and 600m versus Mtn Hwy (from the lot) at 6.5km and 450m.

I guess on a relative basis NQ is harder 90% of the time and for 33% more elevation than Mtn Hwy, but absolute isn't horribly different in my eyes from a time perspective. One hurts way more than the other, but I don't think that Im getting up Mtn Hwy notably faster than up NQ - but I guess Im spinning my way up the Hwy with half a smile on my face while Im about to die by the time I hit Mtn Hwy via NQ.

Yeah, I cant imagine 1:10 for that ride. That's FLYING up NQ...Id be curious for someone to figure out the average speed required to do that ride in 70min. Assume decent 50% faster than ascent and I bet that's cooking up NQ in what, 10min? 5km in 10minutes is averaging 30kph up the climbing trail. Time to plot it out.

Perhaps Spandies can help us out with data? Far did you travel and how many kms were climbing versus how many were descending?

Yeah it’s a different kind of strain :). In the fall I compared the two routes. Both from the tennis courts, but one up No Quarter, and the other up to the BP, down to Mountain Highway, then up to the NQ exit. At a decent tempo, the NQ route was 40min, and the BP/MH route was actually 45 min to the same point. 34lb Alu Sentinel at the time FWIW :-D

May 10, 2019, 11:03 p.m.
Posts: 1697
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: craw

Posted by: LoamtoHome

e-bikers won't form any advocacy group unless they get banned. Even then, how you going to enforce?

Until batteries get way better, I can't see people chipping their ebikes. Even in Trail mode, battery power doesn't last too long. In Boost mode, it would be really hard to navigate up some trails.

It really boils down to the rider responsibility.

Totally. For me the big sell was to self-shuttle, not just up the hill but across town. I was intrigued by the prospect of not driving to ride.

Until a bit of research revealed that most ebikes would barely get my 220lbs from home in East Van over to one North Shore mountain up down and home again on a single charge. While here I was thinking I could skip the car and ride two mountains when I'd most likely end up hauling this 50lb bike with my truck as usual.

Agreed about the 'chipped' ebikes. For the pedelecs, even though you can chip it doesn't mean you'd want to. I've ridden one, it takes a good amount of wattage to spin it up to 50km/h even on pavement and the battery won't last very long. Good to brag about, not actually very functional in practice. 

For the self-shuttling, also my 'ideal' as well. Could be a market for a certain shop to offer battery charging/battery storage services. I'd love to ride from Vancouver on one battery and a set of slicks, swap at the base of mountain highway, do a loop, swap back and roll home. Much better than dealing with traffic, probably faster depending on time of day. One can dream.

So spandy... If you didn't live so far away from the NS trails would you have bought an ebike? Or is that just a lame excuse? I mean you used to race pro right?

May 11, 2019, 6:38 a.m.
Posts: 421
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: Hepcat

Dismayed to discover during yesterdays ride that both the guys who ride e-bikes at my local (highly sensitive) trail have now pulled the cranks off. 🤢

Just throttle.

Nobody should be surprised. This idea that someone is going to inspect every electric moped/motorcycle to see if it meets some arbitrary authorized standard is fantasy. If you let motors on the trails you let anything even remotely resembling what's legal onto the trails. That's just our new reality. Pedaling is now optional. If pegs catch too much attention that same throttle equipped moped will get the pedals reinstalled just to get past any parking lot scrutiny and on the trails he can happy pin the throttle and shred.

May 11, 2019, 9:30 a.m.
Posts: 593
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: craw

Posted by: LoamtoHome

e-bikers won't form any advocacy group unless they get banned. Even then, how you going to enforce?

Until batteries get way better, I can't see people chipping their ebikes. Even in Trail mode, battery power doesn't last too long. In Boost mode, it would be really hard to navigate up some trails.

It really boils down to the rider responsibility.

Totally. For me the big sell was to self-shuttle, not just up the hill but across town. I was intrigued by the prospect of not driving to ride.

Until a bit of research revealed that most ebikes would barely get my 220lbs from home in East Van over to one North Shore mountain up down and home again on a single charge. While here I was thinking I could skip the car and ride two mountains when I'd most likely end up hauling this 50lb bike with my truck as usual.

Agreed about the 'chipped' ebikes. For the pedelecs, even though you can chip it doesn't mean you'd want to. I've ridden one, it takes a good amount of wattage to spin it up to 50km/h even on pavement and the battery won't last very long. Good to brag about, not actually very functional in practice. 

For the self-shuttling, also my 'ideal' as well. Could be a market for a certain shop to offer battery charging/battery storage services. I'd love to ride from Vancouver on one battery and a set of slicks, swap at the base of mountain highway, do a loop, swap back and roll home. Much better than dealing with traffic, probably faster depending on time of day. One can dream.

So spandy... If you didn't live so far away from the NS trails would you have bought an ebike? Or is that just a lame excuse? I mean you used to race pro right?

LVB said I could get a second battery from Devinci for another $700. But I'm a freak of nature and Devinci doesn't sell to tall people. The only e-bike that comes close to fitting me is the Nicolai/Geometron one that's nearly $15k CAD. Presumably $16k CAD when you include the second battery which I'd leave at LVB charging so I could do this whole self-shuttling thing. So would I take one of these monstrosities over a healthy down payment on an EV? Or take a couple of months off and travel? Absolutely not. 

In fact it really begs the question. Maybe I sell my truck, put that $8k of ebike money on top and buy an EV and keep driving my bike to the trails.

May 11, 2019, 10:45 a.m.
Posts: 1148
Joined: March 18, 2017

^start riding out in the valley to utilize the HOV lanes... 

Cant wait for the next gen KTM electric dirt bikes. Will be fun to “e-bike” one of them up,down and around The Shore.

May 11, 2019, 10:49 a.m.
Posts: 13
Joined: Nov. 1, 2017

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: craw

Posted by: LoamtoHome

e-bikers won't form any advocacy group unless they get banned. Even then, how you going to enforce?

Until batteries get way better, I can't see people chipping their ebikes. Even in Trail mode, battery power doesn't last too long. In Boost mode, it would be really hard to navigate up some trails.

It really boils down to the rider responsibility.

Totally. For me the big sell was to self-shuttle, not just up the hill but across town. I was intrigued by the prospect of not driving to ride.

Until a bit of research revealed that most ebikes would barely get my 220lbs from home in East Van over to one North Shore mountain up down and home again on a single charge. While here I was thinking I could skip the car and ride two mountains when I'd most likely end up hauling this 50lb bike with my truck as usual.

Agreed about the 'chipped' ebikes. For the pedelecs, even though you can chip it doesn't mean you'd want to. I've ridden one, it takes a good amount of wattage to spin it up to 50km/h even on pavement and the battery won't last very long. Good to brag about, not actually very functional in practice. 

For the self-shuttling, also my 'ideal' as well. Could be a market for a certain shop to offer battery charging/battery storage services. I'd love to ride from Vancouver on one battery and a set of slicks, swap at the base of mountain highway, do a loop, swap back and roll home. Much better than dealing with traffic, probably faster depending on time of day. One can dream.

So spandy... If you didn't live so far away from the NS trails would you have bought an ebike? Or is that just a lame excuse? I mean you used to race pro right?

I've had this thing for a week - I absolutely would buy a pedelec even if I lived on the North Shore. Currently, I meet my buds who live a few km away from one of the mountains, ride to the trails, and ride back. We can do a loop in a shorter period of time with no need to load up the cars, and ride the trails with none or minimal stopping even given different fitness and skill levels. If these are lame excuses, then I guess I don't mind being lame. And no, I never raced 'pro'; my comments earlier were contextual around how I foresee myself using this bike, nothing more. 

I'm not here to have a dick waving contest about fitness, the amount of volunteering one has done, or how technically proficient one may or may not be. These pedal assist bikes are a game-changer, and as much as many of you don't like it, this trend will grab hold. It has already been mentioned multiple times that enforcement is the crux of the issue, regardless of whether or not land managers/trail organizations/the wizard of oz plans to ban e-assist bikes. So the question is, if enforcement is nonexistent and we can't do jack-all about irresponsible people, wouldn't it be a better strategy to include those in the pedelec camp as part of the conversation to both help inform policy decisions and to deter abusive behaviours? Otherwise, we collectively have no platform to proactively address the preservation and growth of our sport and our trail assets. 

Shame all you want, but I suspect those who are irresponsible will continue to not give a shit and ignore whatever pleas we may tender, regardless of bans or no bans. Do you now also want to lose the camp of responsible pedelec riders who are interested in engaging in the discussion?

May 11, 2019, 10:53 a.m.
Posts: 932
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: Brocklanders

Land Managers and other user groups think ebikes are motorized vehicles.

May 11, 2019, 10:56 a.m.
Posts: 932
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Do they, have any land managers or owners weighed in on the issue yet? If so, show me please. I’m not trying to be an ass but trying to wade through fear and bullshit.

May 11, 2019, 11:03 a.m.
Posts: 932
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by Brocklanders

If ebikes go on bike trails they annoy land managers and other user groups and will jeopardize bike access. 

So just like mountain bikes 15 or 20 years ago? Or even still today with some people of other user groups.

May 11, 2019, 3:46 p.m.
Posts: 840
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

You think that the battery in a Powerplay Altitude would make it up to the top of Disneyland? :)

I’m still mixed on these things but I believe that in 5-10yrs from now that even today’s biggest opponents will have one.

May 11, 2019, 4:31 p.m.
Posts: 593
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Ask me again in a few years when the battery life and weight are improved. I think they'll become ubiquitous. People who like to suffer will just suffer further and faster.


 Last edited by: craw on May 11, 2019, 4:32 p.m., edited 1 time in total.

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