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ebikes on the Shore

May 5, 2019, 7:19 a.m.
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: tashi

Yes, hover bikes would still have some of us “screaming murder”. 

MOTORS. THEY ALL HAVE MOTORS. ITS NOT MOUNTAIN BIKING IF IT HAS A MOTOR.  FFS.

Matter of opinion

May 5, 2019, 8:27 a.m.
Posts: 447
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: tashi

Yes, hover bikes would still have some of us “screaming murder”. 

MOTORS. THEY ALL HAVE MOTORS. ITS NOT MOUNTAIN BIKING IF IT HAS A MOTOR.  FFS.

I actually don't think that matters for a lot of people.  I'd say it comes down to three things

1. Is it fun?

2. Can I afford it?

3. Is it legal/allowed? This may not be a concern for a lot of people, which ironically wasn't and still isn't for many people that ride. Been down the Darkside or a closed/unsanctioned trail lately?

May 5, 2019, 8:57 a.m.
Posts: 1456
Joined: April 25, 2003

I'd say that it does matter if they're considered them mountain bikes or not.  Land managers likely agree with me, as they often make trail access decisions based on whether or not the toy has a motor.

May 5, 2019, 10:20 a.m.
Posts: 447
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: tashi

I'd say that it does matter if they're considered them mountain bikes or not.  Land managers likely agree with me, as they often make trail access decisions based on whether or not the toy has a motor.

My point is about perspective - for some it matters and for some it doesn't. As for land managers you may be right, but at least locally this seems to not be a big enough of an issue for them to care about it all that much right now.

I'm honestly more concerned about the lack of rules/policies/guidelines regarding their use from both a land manager perspective and a trail org perspective. There seems to be very little talk on what is considered appropriate. Trail org's seem to be deferring to land managers and land managers seem to be saying and doing nothing, so in effect it's open season. I tend to view humans as generally unthinking but having the potential to do smart things, so if people aren't given reasonable guidelines to follow they'll probably tend to do whatever the hell they want or what their peer group deems as ok. The psychology of decision making and behaviour modifying is interesting. For example we know that changing behaviour is a difficult thing and that shaming is typically not very effective and can even backfire and reinforce the objectionable behaviour. That part of why I don't think the yelling that ebikes suck is an effective strategy for managing their use. 

Right now the barn door is open and a couple of horses are poking their heads outside to see what the weather is like. I think that potentially within a couple of years the horses will bolt and run wild unless someone either closes the door or puts a fence around the barn. Last year we had municipal elections and the issue of ebikes didn't even register on the radar. That could have been a good time to make this issue visible. The next elections are 3.5 years away, which probably too late to do anything about from a political pressure perspective. The longer things go without any sort of formal rules or regulations the greater the chance that ebikes become embedded as a user group with associated potential user conflicts. 

It's basically hurry up and wait to see what happens.

May 6, 2019, 9:58 a.m.
Posts: 807
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I was passed by an ebike going about 25kph on Old Buck below Bridal Path on Sunday. The (older) person riding it was polite and called out and if theres a place on the Shore I don't mind seeing one, its Old Buck (or Mtn Hwy or BLT). I don't know if the person turned into Bridal Path or stayed on OB, I hope it was the latter, because after he passed, he took off like a bat out of hell at way more than 25. 40? 45? 50? I don't know, but it was a rocket bike. 

Personally, I was okay with it because the person on it called it and was on OB. Seemed like a bunch of fast people were out on Seymour yesterday and I was passed a few times by riders on the climbing trail - which is perfectly fine and I pull over. I think that if I was pulling over endlessly to allow ebike riders by it would have ruined that beautiful climb for me.

May 6, 2019, 1 p.m.
Posts: 1529
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: Ddean

I was passed by an ebike going about 25kph on Old Buck below Bridal Path on Sunday. The (older) person riding it was polite and called out and if theres a place on the Shore I don't mind seeing one, its Old Buck (or Mtn Hwy or BLT). I don't know if the person turned into Bridal Path or stayed on OB, I hope it was the latter, because after he passed, he took off like a bat out of hell at way more than 25. 40? 45? 50? I don't know, but it was a rocket bike.

Yes they rip. Rode them myself, it's motorsport, black and white. Probable that this guy you saw hacked his? Then we get back to the question of who is going to regulate these things? Of course this will be taken into consideration by the land managers. A big mess cometh


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on May 6, 2019, 1:02 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
May 6, 2019, 1:24 p.m.
Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Brocklanders

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mnn.com/green-tech/transportation/blogs/amp/are-boomers-e-bikes-going-get-themselves-killed

natural selection, one co2 polluter less

May 6, 2019, 4:33 p.m.
Posts: 531
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Ddean

I think that if I was pulling over endlessly to allow ebike riders by it would have ruined that beautiful climb for me.

I hadn't considered this possible future. This would be a major issue for me.

May 6, 2019, 4:43 p.m.
Posts: 447
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Ddean

I was passed by an ebike going about 25kph on Old Buck below Bridal Path on Sunday. The (older) person riding it was polite and called out and if theres a place on the Shore I don't mind seeing one, its Old Buck (or Mtn Hwy or BLT). I don't know if the person turned into Bridal Path or stayed on OB, I hope it was the latter, because after he passed, he took off like a bat out of hell at way more than 25. 40? 45? 50? I don't know, but it was a rocket bike.

Personally, I was okay with it because the person on it called it and was on OB. Seemed like a bunch of fast people were out on Seymour yesterday and I was passed a few times by riders on the climbing trail - which is perfectly fine and I pull over. I think that if I was pulling over endlessly to allow ebike riders by it would have ruined that beautiful climb for me.

Perception of speed is much different when you're going at a walking pace and the pathway is narrow. The guy may have been doing the 32kph max but it just seemed way faster from your position. It's cool that he was courteous about the pass though, that's the way it should be. On a climbing trail I'd be much less inclined to pull over to let someone on an ebike pass me. Another pedaler would be fine, but someone on an ebike can just wait till there's enough space to pass as I'm not going to blow my climbing groove for someone who's getting assistance up the hill.

This sort of thing is why some sort of rider etiquette needs to be established and promoted by trail orgs so that people know what the protocol is and can refer to it.


 Last edited by: syncro on May 6, 2019, 4:45 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 6, 2019, 6:21 p.m.
Posts: 1538
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

Posted by: craw

Posted by: Ddean

I think that if I was pulling over endlessly to allow ebike riders by it would have ruined that beautiful climb for me.

I hadn't considered this possible future. This would be a major issue for me.

That's my biggest concern.  It's rare on most rides that more than a couple or three people want to pass on a climbing route, and they're often in a single group, so I don't mind pulling over once.  But having to potentially do it multiple times going up a climb like GSM would definitely kill your climbing flow.

May 6, 2019, 9:06 p.m.
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Ddean

On a climbing trail I'd be much less inclined to pull over to let someone on an ebike pass me. Another pedaler would be fine, but someone on an ebike can just wait till there's enough space to pass as I'm not going to blow my climbing groove for someone who's getting assistance up the hill.

This sort of thing is why some sort of rider etiquette needs to be established and promoted by trail orgs so that people know what the protocol is and can refer to it.

Exactly! Manners, courtesy, respect and common sense. An asshole rider doesn’t need a motor. In my opinion, and it’s just an opinion, but most of the anti e-bike rhetoric in this thread comes from but hurt elitists who are worried about their KOM’s. I may be mis or uninformed but the only people around here “banning “ e-bikes are trail organizations and not owners or managers. Sorry folks,the horses are out and the barn door is open. I don’t find many of your arguments to have a lot of merit.

May 6, 2019, 10 p.m.
Posts: 1529
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Ddean

On a climbing trail I'd be much less inclined to pull over to let someone on an ebike pass me. Another pedaler would be fine, but someone on an ebike can just wait till there's enough space to pass as I'm not going to blow my climbing groove for someone who's getting assistance up the hill.

This sort of thing is why some sort of rider etiquette needs to be established and promoted by trail orgs so that people know what the protocol is and can refer to it.

Exactly! Manners, courtesy, respect and common sense. An asshole rider doesn’t need a motor. In my opinion, and it’s just an opinion, but most of the anti e-bike rhetoric in this thread comes from but hurt elitists who are worried about their KOM’s. I may be mis or uninformed but the only people around here “banning “ e-bikes are trail organizations and not owners or managers. Sorry folks,the horses are out and the barn door is open. I don’t find many of your arguments to have a lot of merit.

Why you don't see the issue. The issue is the negative perceptions to motorized vehicles on trails. Land Managers and other user groups think ebikes are motorized vehicles. LM's have policies against motorized vehicles. If ebikes go on bike trails they annoy land managers and other user groups and will jeopardize bike access. It's not about my KOM I could care less.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on May 6, 2019, 10:12 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 7, 2019, 4:11 a.m.
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Read my whole statement. Can you show me an instance where in our region a land manager has had an issue with e bikes?

May 7, 2019, 4:17 a.m.
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Ddean

On a climbing trail I'd be much less inclined to pull over to let someone on an ebike pass me. Another pedaler would be fine, but someone on an ebike can just wait till there's enough space to pass as I'm not going to blow my climbing groove for someone who's getting assistance up the hill

If ebikes go on bike trails they annoy land managers and other user groups and will jeopardize bike access. 

Province said thumbs up. When I see or read of any LM’s banning e bikes I might buy it. So far it’s only been self righteous trail orgs.

May 7, 2019, 8:30 a.m.
Posts: 17
Joined: Aug. 16, 2018

how dare those self-righteous trail orgs be against e-bikes!  give your head a shake and turn this around.  if e-bikers want to be represented it's time for them to form new organizations.  oh wait, right, they just want to ride on the backs of others.  the industry is great at making ads and paying riders to promote e-bikes, but actually putting any effort into advocacy?  not so much.  it's a joke.

unfortunately however, we're fucked.  in the long-run e-bikes mean more people, more parking issues, more conflict, and 100% without a doubt, more trails becoming side walks.  the trend in flow trails is only getting started and what do you think a massive influx of people will do?  anyone who likes riding techy trails should really think about the long-run impacts of the flood of riders that e-bikes will inevitably bring.  if the people who want serious tech trails on the north shore is say 25-50% today, just wait until it's <10%.  who do you think trails orgs are going to cater to?  and no knock on them, they have to follow the numbers and the where the funding is.

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