Posted by: Brocklanders I'm just pretty sure a few years down the road the crank sets on them is just going to be for looks, pretty much there already.
this would be a sweet shore shredder, no?
ebikes on the Shore
The point where cycling turns into motorsport... this above pic^^
Looks fun for sure. Can't wait to tear up the trails on one.
Posted by: Ddean
Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?
Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.
I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.
Not prefect but perfect is impractical.
Posted by: earleb
Good luck with that on Fromme with all the different access points.
Roll it into North Van residents property taxes then.
Nanaimo Lakes Rd has a manned booth. Was $2 last time I was up there. Access to Brandywine is $20/sled.
Point is there is currently usage fees for other user groups.
Posted by: tashi
Posted by: Ddean
Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?
Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.
I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.
Not prefect but perfect is impractical.
but what do you do if the social norm switches from pedal to ebike?
40yrs ago the social norm was to only hike in the forest, not bike.
Accept that things have changed, stop volunteering my time cutting and maintaining trails in official areas and do more poaching I guess.
Posted by: Endur-Bro
Posted by: earleb
Good luck with that on Fromme with all the different access points.
Roll it into North Van residents property taxes then.
Nanaimo Lakes Rd has a manned booth. Was $2 last time I was up there. Access to Brandywine is $20/sled.
Point is there is currently usage fees for other user groups.
I am all good letting DNV tax payers that it on, I pay taxes in the CNV :)
Both of those mentioned are single point access, my point was that Fromme has a boat load of access points and it would be futile to try collect a daily user fee from just one or two spots. People are just going to change their habits and avoid the fee.
Posted by: tashi
I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.
Not prefect but perfect is impractical.
A problem with this is that our sport was basically built on disobeying the rules. NO trails back in the day were "legal" or sanctioned for bikes. EVERYONE rode anyway. Look at all the riding on unauthorized trails today. Someone out riding the darkside on their pedal bike is going to call in the dudes riding on their ebikes? Neither of them are supposed to be there.
We're down an ugly rabbit hole here. Anyone know the motto of the Jackson Hole Airforce? Swift, Silent, and Deep. If ebikes are banned from trails there will be a lot of riders taking up that motto.
Last edited by: earleb on April 9, 2019, 9:56 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: tashi
Accept that things have changed, stop volunteering my time cutting and maintaining trails in official areas...
Pretty much this, have spent decades advocating, planning, maintaining and building for non-moto, believe firmly in that distinction between user types, not interested in volunteering my free time for motorized bike users.
Last edited by: FlipFantasia on April 9, 2019, 10:23 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: earleb
Posted by: tashi
I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.
Not prefect but perfect is impractical.
A problem with this is that our sport was basically built on disobeying the rules. NO trails back in the day were "legal" or sanctioned for bikes. EVERYONE rode anyway. Look at all the riding on unauthorized trails today. Someone out riding the darkside on their pedal bike is going to call in the dudes riding on their ebikes? Neither of them are supposed to be there.
We're down an ugly rabbit hole here. Anyone know the motto of the Jackson Hole Airforce? Swift, Silent, and Deep. If ebikes are banned from trails there will be a lot of riders taking up that motto.
I don’t see how this is a “problem”.
We were all “rogue”, some of us wanted legitimacy so they fought for it. They got some push back from established groups, some reasonable, some not. We all got legal trails where appropriate and got locked out of other areas.
Personally, I think that in a lot of the official areas mopeds will be a problem so I’m encouraging us to see them for what they are, a new user group, and respond appropriately. If you wish to welcome them than that’s your prerogative. My efforts will be focused on mountain bike trails.
As to your example, no, I don't expect that one rule breaker will "call in" (out?) another rule breaker. As to the rabbit hole you refer to, there's plenty of rogue riding and building that still goes on, even though we have legal trails. Many of us are already down that rabbit hole. Luckily the trails there are often hard, tight and not friendly to folks with super heavy bikes, poor handling skills and weak legs.
Last edited by: tashi on April 9, 2019, 12:52 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
The moment anyone starts even trying to charge people to be on the trails is the moment the entire NSMBA board quits over liability.
This is why the Trail Pass has been replaced; eliminating the possibility that it could possibly be construed as charging for access.
http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96337_01
And earleb, its swift. silent. deep. I'm mildly surprised no one up here has replicated the original Airforce hats with a helmet sticker, TBH.
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: tashi
Posted by: Ddean
Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?
Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.
I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.
Not prefect but perfect is impractical.
but what do you do if the social norm switches from pedal to ebike?
40yrs ago the social norm was to only hike in the forest, not bike.
Exactly ⚡️,
I guess then all the dinosaurs go extinct and Fred Flintstone calls for all his acoustic bikes back.
Posted by: E-wok
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: tashi
Posted by: Ddean
Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?
Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.
I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.
Not prefect but perfect is impractical.
but what do you do if the social norm switches from pedal to ebike?
40yrs ago the social norm was to only hike in the forest, not bike.
Exactly ⚡️,
I guess then all the dinosaurs go extinct and Fred Flintstone calls for all his acoustic bikes back.
Um, there are still plenty of hikers from what I can tell. It's not like bikes arrived and nobody wanted to walk anymore. Likely ebikes won't sway everyone, even if they manage to make them quiet or light. Still lots of people riding hardtails too.
This is a good read.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/do-we-really-need-e-bikes-opinion-2017.html
Yep, I love the fact that mountain bikes are human powered, and I also love the challenge of value-oriented mountain bike enjoyment. E-mtb will never be more appealing than conventional mtb to this rider.
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