ebikes on the Shore

UCI battles FIM for control of Ebike racing

FIM thinks they're motorbikes, UCI wants the cash though.

I wonder if UCI will have doping control in ebike racing?

Posted by: cerealkilla_

And don't think the bespectacled protectors of the frogs who hate all bikes aren't just rubbing their grubby little hands together with glee as bikers quarrel among themselves over the respective virtues (or lack thereof) of emtb and mtb.

Make no mistake, the anti-all-bike rabble will seek to make the most of the ebike issue, and use it to forward their own petty claims to the trails. They won't even bother with booby traps this time.

And THAT is why it is so important that the people that are pushing and marketing ebikes need to step up and address the valid issues regarding their responsible integration into trails. Instead of just sticking their thumbs up and saying "just ride" or "be rad" and marketing blah blah blah, they need to actually acknowledge there are some legitimate issues, and articulate a strategy for dealing with them.... Insurance, directional trails, responsible use of (now motorized) machines when mixing with other trail users, and potential trail impact issues (still subject to debate).  We should be looking to get past the baseless issues (i.e. how people feel or what they think they've earned), and focus on the concrete issues that matter when it comes to trail access and actual impacts on trails and other users.

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

Awesome post that perfectly sums up my feelings and fears on this subject. Nothing to do with getting passed by ebikers (I personally don't give a shit, but I worry about perception by other user groups getting dusted by these guys on Old Buck/BP(s)/single track).

Awesome to see UROC making an unequivocal statement for Cumberland Community Forest... Non-motorized = NO ebikes.

Posted by: shoreboy

You are correct that the NSMBA has zero authority as to which groups use the trails. They can only advocate for trail use, but it is obviously not in their mandate to enforce any policies. That is up to the land managers. In the case of Fromme, that is mostly the DNV.

Their responses to my inquiries about e-bike policy are the same as others have received here: "As of yet, there is no formalized policy pertaining to e-bikes. However, the District of North Vancouver currently does not encourage the use of e-bikes on mountain bike trails on District property."

This would be fence sitting at its finest. No idea what 'does not encourage use of' means.

"Does not encourage use of means that it is "not ok" or "no confirmation they are allowed" to be used on their land. I'm not sure where you get "fence sitting" from.

Posted by: BigFoot

Posted by: shoreboy

You are correct that the NSMBA has zero authority as to which groups use the trails. They can only advocate for trail use, but it is obviously not in their mandate to enforce any policies. That is up to the land managers. In the case of Fromme, that is mostly the DNV.

Their responses to my inquiries about e-bike policy are the same as others have received here: "As of yet, there is no formalized policy pertaining to e-bikes. However, the District of North Vancouver currently does not encourage the use of e-bikes on mountain bike trails on District property."

This would be fence sitting at its finest. No idea what 'does not encourage use of' means.

"Does not encourage use of means that it is "not ok" or "no confirmation they are allowed" to be used on their land. I'm not sure where you get "fence sitting" from.

Not 'encouraging' something isnt a policy.  It means they discourage them from using the trails (but will not stop them), and will make no effort to enact or enforce a policy either way.  Fence sitting.

But again, NSMBA doesn’t have the authority to determine who can and cannot use the trails. 

Perhaps it would be consulted but it would be pointless for them to come out with a position that isn’t actionable.

Posted by: Ddean

But again, NSMBA doesn’t have the authority to determine who can and cannot use the trails. 

Perhaps it would be consulted but it would be pointless for them to come out with a position that isn’t actionable.

If you read my post above, I am referring to the DNV and not the NSMBA.

Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?

Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.

Posted by: grambo

Awesome to see UROC making an unequivocal statement for Cumberland Community Forest... Non-motorized = NO ebikes.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the local Cumberland bike shops (Dodge City and Beaufort) both rent Emopeds. It sucks when an organization like UROC sets a high standard and yet their initiative is flaunted.

Posted by: grambo

Posted by: cerealkilla_

And don't think the bespectacled protectors of the frogs who hate all bikes aren't just rubbing their grubby little hands together...

Awesome post that perfectly sums up my feelings and fears on this subject. Nothing to do with getting passed by ebikers (I personally don't give a shit, but I worry about perception by other user groups getting dusted by these guys on Old Buck/BP(s)/single track).

Awesome to see UROC making an unequivocal statement for Cumberland Community Forest... Non-motorized = NO ebikes.

I also agree with cerealkilla_ like it or not ebikes are a sub category of mountain bikes and we need to work together to maintain trail access.

Posted by: fartymarty

I also agree with cerealkilla_ like it or not ebikes are a sub category of mountain bikes and we need to work together to maintain trail access.

I live on the other side of the globe, and yes, I really think that no matter what and how an indiviual feels about ebikes...they are here to stay, and so all the initiatives and clubs and law makers need to find a way, be it a ban or a compromise in form of multi-use.

Posted by: Ddean

Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?

Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.

This is a point I've always brought up and have never heard a reasonable answer for. There is no practical way to enforce any rules around ebikes, at least in the areas we ride on the coast of BC. Outside of parks land where you could pay rangers to stand at trailheads and stop/fine ebikes, who is going to enforce on DNV/crown/private (woodlot/Diamond Head) etc. land? With other motorized like dirtbikes/trials it's really an honour system and code of conduct in the communities. Also it's hilarious when ebike proponents bring up the class 1/2/3 BS. Do you expect land managers to pay people to stand at trailheads and inspect bikes to see if they have been modded for more power/throttle? Not happening. 

The only outcomes are either ebikes are accepted and ridden everywhere (most likely) or they are outright banned along with mountain bikes (due to inability to distinguish/enforce).

Posted by: grambo

Posted by: Ddean

Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?

Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.

This is a point I've always brought up and have never heard a reasonable answer for. There is no practical way to enforce any rules around ebikes, at least in the areas we ride on the coast of BC. Outside of parks land where you could pay rangers to stand at trailheads and stop/fine ebikes, who is going to enforce on DNV/crown/private (woodlot/Diamond Head) etc. land? With other motorized like dirtbikes/trials it's really an honour system and code of conduct in the communities. Also it's hilarious when ebike proponents bring up the class 1/2/3 BS. Do you expect land managers to pay people to stand at trailheads and inspect bikes to see if they have been modded for more power/throttle? Not happening. 

The only outcomes are either ebikes are accepted and ridden everywhere (most likely) or they are outright banned along with mountain bikes (due to inability to distinguish/enforce).

Good post. This has been talked about before, the whole situation is messy.  I'm just pretty sure a few years down the road the crank sets on them is just going to be for looks, pretty much there already.

^Land managers will just offload the cost to the user groups. Picture a manned booth on Fromme where a rider pays a per day fee or has a seasons pass to the area.