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ebikes on the Shore

April 2, 2019, 9:46 a.m.
Posts: 334
Joined: June 28, 2011

I see lots of people shuttling their perfectly capable climbing bike (you know the ones with the dinner plates at the rear) on Seymour, Cypress, Squamish etc. I really don't think shuttling has got anything to do with the discussion about ebikes.

April 2, 2019, 12:43 p.m.
Posts: 858
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

After riding up No Quarter to 7th with Cameron two weeks ago, he on his SHOCKER and me on my E29, I think that an ebike is sooner in my future than I would have hoped.

Kieran, we need ebikes to keep up with this new breed of superhuman kid who climbs 2000ft on DH rigs like theyre on world cup XC bikes. I feel no shame!


 Last edited by: Ddean on April 2, 2019, 12:46 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
April 2, 2019, 3:18 p.m.
Posts: 697
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Ddean

After riding up No Quarter to 7th with Cameron two weeks ago, he on his SHOCKER and me on my E29, I think that an ebike is sooner in my future than I would have hoped.

Kieran, we need ebikes to keep up with this new breed of superhuman kid who climbs 2000ft on DH rigs like theyre on world cup XC bikes. I feel no shame!

Or just ride more. I believe you can do it! Crush that kid.

April 3, 2019, 2:14 a.m.
Posts: 2200
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).

Enjoy your one lap riding from where ever in the city to the top of one of the local riding areas. Maybe they can put a charging station in at the trail heads for you. I drive/ ride my bike over the Ironworkers everyday to and from work and have never seen one E-Mtb headed for a trail ride. Seen lots on the back of trucks though, usually Tacomas, they are electric too right?

Finally figured out what the "E" stands for.... Excuses

you don't get my point. i just find it kinda hypocritical to moan the "destruction" of trails (aka scratching the top soil) by e-bikers while at the same time everybody is cool with really destroying the environment (aka causing global warming).  just say you are entitled to these trails and don't want too many people using them, would be more believable...

April 3, 2019, 8:03 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

I do get your point. I have not once moaned about destruction of trails, want them for myself? Laughable.

I was out on Breamar last night after work, 530 pm. You would think now that we have this rain cycle for the next week it would have been packed. How many riders did I see out there? About 6 in 2 hours, was super jammed. I could care less about numbers, happy to see people and say hi. That is such a lame argument, ya we wanna hog the trails for ourselves.

Just don't wanna lose trail access due to conflict, from electric motorbikes riding trails not built for them.

That's all


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on April 3, 2019, 8:03 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 3, 2019, 8:54 a.m.
Posts: 738
Joined: Aug. 14, 2003

And don't think the bespectacled protectors of the frogs who hate all bikes aren't just rubbing their grubby little hands together with glee as bikers quarrel among themselves over the respective virtues (or lack thereof) of emtb and mtb.

Make no mistake, the anti-all-bike rabble will seek to make the most of the ebike issue, and use it to forward their own petty claims to the trails. They won't even bother with booby traps this time.

And THAT is why it is so important that the people that are pushing and marketing ebikes need to step up and address the valid issues regarding their responsible integration into trails. Instead of just sticking their thumbs up and saying "just ride" or "be rad" and marketing blah blah blah, they need to actually acknowledge there are some legitimate issues, and articulate a strategy for dealing with them.... Insurance, directional trails, responsible use of (now motorized) machines when mixing with other trail users, and potential trail impact issues (still subject to debate).  We should be looking to get past the baseless issues (i.e. how people feel or what they think they've earned), and focus on the concrete issues that matter when it comes to trail access and actual impacts on trails and other users.

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

April 3, 2019, 9:30 a.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: cerealkilla_

And don't think the bespectacled protectors of the frogs who hate all bikes aren't just rubbing their grubby little hands together with glee as bikers quarrel among themselves over the respective virtues (or lack thereof) of emtb and mtb.

Make no mistake, the anti-all-bike rabble will seek to make the most of the ebike issue, and use it to forward their own petty claims to the trails. They won't even bother with booby traps this time.

And THAT is why it is so important that the people that are pushing and marketing ebikes need to step up and address the valid issues regarding their responsible integration into trails. Instead of just sticking their thumbs up and saying "just ride" or "be rad" and marketing blah blah blah, they need to actually acknowledge there are some legitimate issues, and articulate a strategy for dealing with them.... Insurance, directional trails, responsible use of (now motorized) machines when mixing with other trail users, and potential trail impact issues (still subject to debate).  We should be looking to get past the baseless issues (i.e. how people feel or what they think they've earned), and focus on the concrete issues that matter when it comes to trail access and actual impacts on trails and other users.

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

great post

April 3, 2019, 10:21 a.m.
Posts: 483
Joined: April 11, 2011

Posted by: cerealkilla_

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

This is super concise.  Does anyone not agree with this?  Not having this conversation while marketing the hell out of e-bikes and waiting to see if they are a fad, is a bewildering approach.

April 3, 2019, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 1225
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Manufacturers are going to play within the rules that are set out and right now there really aren’t any so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s a bit of a free for all. You would think it would be in their interests to be more proactive, but apparently that isn’t the case.

April 3, 2019, 11:02 a.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Posted by: syncro

Manufacturers are going to play within the rules that are set out and right now there really aren’t any so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s a bit of a free for all. You would think it would be in their interests to be more proactive, but apparently that isn’t the case.

Proactive = more regulation. Manufacturers don't want Ebikes to be regulated, restricted or made unattractive in any way. So they'll stay silent and hope they can keep slinging the ebikes while they are as attractive as possible.

April 3, 2019, 11:02 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug. 16, 2018

Posted by: Henry-Chinaski

Posted by: cerealkilla_

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

This is super concise.  Does anyone not agree with this?  Not having this conversation while marketing the hell out of e-bikes and waiting to see if they are a fad, is a bewildering approach.

yup, great post by ceralkilla.

too bad the people pushing these things aren't going to take these points into consideration.

April 3, 2019, 11:04 a.m.
Posts: 858
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I remember Monica saying that her community was going to stay silent on the issue and let ebikes become part of MTB culture, and then at that point would they start waving their arms again. An inability to police the difference between ebikes and MTBs is their plan for grouping the two groups together. If you cant enforce a difference between ebikes versus MTBs and if ebikes are not good, all bikes get banned. That is what it looks like their future argument will be.

April 3, 2019, 11:23 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

I had a response from the DNV. They are still waiting on what the provincial Govt plan is before they act.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/regulation-for-electric-bikes-may-forever-change-b-c-mountain-trails-1.4595145

So we wait and see, I am hoping and guessing they will follow the BLM in the States approach. Although this future policy is for crown land.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on April 3, 2019, 11:28 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 3, 2019, 12:27 p.m.
Posts: 1225
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: syncro

Manufacturers are going to play within the rules that are set out and right now there really aren’t any so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s a bit of a free for all. You would think it would be in their interests to be more proactive, but apparently that isn’t the case.

Proactive = more regulation. Manufacturers don't want Ebikes to be regulated, restricted or made unattractive in any way. So they'll stay silent and hope they can keep slinging the ebikes while they are as attractive as possible.

True, but by not being proactive they also run risk of not being able to play in the sandbox at all if emtbs are banned altogether.

April 3, 2019, 2:52 p.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Posted by: syncro

True, but by not being proactive they also run risk of not being able to play in the sandbox at all if emtbs are banned altogether.

I don't think that's going to happen. I feel like General Ludd opposing these things. The deals will get done - whether back room or in front of the people, and emtbs will be here to stay. 

No one is going to pony up for policing (you can get ticketed for riding the darkside - but how often does that actually happen?), and it's not like anyone in Federal or Provincial Govt actually gives two shits about mountainbike trails. All the effort will be downloaded onto the volunteer organisations along the lines of "well if you don't like it, we can roll back everything you've won out of us so far."

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