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ebikes on the Shore

April 1, 2019, 9:04 p.m.
Posts: 554
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

that kinda rider blasting through a group would get my goat too.  you know who really brasses me off though?  young people. fucking young guys 'hey i'm 18 enduro sick bro, 150 pounds of sinew and fast twitch muscle, i don't smile, i don't say hi to fucking no one i can easily smoke, so get the fuck outta the way gramps'.  breathing down my back and buzzing my rear wheel as if they own the fucking trail. make em ride with back packs filled with 20 liters of water i tell you what.

April 2, 2019, 4:04 a.m.
Posts: 2053
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).


 Last edited by: Sethimus on April 2, 2019, 4:06 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 2, 2019, 6:45 a.m.
Posts: 165
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I "avoided" it because shuttling is a straw man. It's a separate issue.

This primary issue being discussed in this thread is how trail access and trail user group interaction can be managed, and if mopeds should be allowed on non-motorized trails or not.

Whether or not they measurably reduce greenhouse gasses that would have been attributable to shuttling or not is a pretty secondary discussion. Even if they cleaned CO2 from the air and shot magic baby unicorn piss that heals the environment from their non existent tailpipes those factors don't automatically make the mopeds compatible with all trail systems.

If your point is that people only ride ebikes to save the environment so they don't have to shuttle and there fore have a right to trail access purely due to their good citizenship, I'd say that such a claim is disingenuous and again, not really applicable anyways. Upgrade the insulation in your home, way less meat, and compost more and ride share to work.


 Last edited by: Kenny on April 2, 2019, 6:46 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
April 2, 2019, 7:14 a.m.
Posts: 931
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Probably not a popular opinion.... but I still think a large portion of the hate against e-bikes is the fact that more fit riders are butthurt by the fact that riders who are less fit/skilled/capable as them are able to beat them up the hill using artificial means. 

I don't see myself buying and e-bike anytime soon but if another ride wants to use one it doesn't really bother me as long as they act responsibly on the trails. I do think they need to be regulated though (max power/speed, etc.) so they don't evolve into lite dirt bikes.

April 2, 2019, 7:22 a.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).

now do trail networks that aren't shuttleable


 Last edited by: FlipFantasia on April 2, 2019, 7:23 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 2, 2019, 7:39 a.m.
Posts: 80
Joined: March 1, 2017

There's loads of lift access in the UK. Many places hold uplift days of some sort or another. Whether it be scheduled days at non-commercial venues that are sometimes used for races (Bringewood for example but maybe that's stopped....it's been a while....), or more commercial operations like:

https://www.cwmdown.co.uk/

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/uplift

https://www.fodmtb.com/uplift

April 2, 2019, 8:02 a.m.
Posts: 1173
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).

Enjoy your one lap riding from where ever in the city to the top of one of the local riding areas. Maybe they can put a charging station in at the trail heads for you. I drive/ ride my bike over the Ironworkers everyday to and from work and have never seen one E-Mtb headed for a trail ride. Seen lots on the back of trucks though, usually Tacomas, they are electric too right?

Finally figured out what the "E" stands for.... Excuses


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on April 2, 2019, 8:03 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 2, 2019, 9:46 a.m.
Posts: 173
Joined: June 28, 2011

I see lots of people shuttling their perfectly capable climbing bike (you know the ones with the dinner plates at the rear) on Seymour, Cypress, Squamish etc. I really don't think shuttling has got anything to do with the discussion about ebikes.

April 2, 2019, 12:43 p.m.
Posts: 702
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

After riding up No Quarter to 7th with Cameron two weeks ago, he on his SHOCKER and me on my E29, I think that an ebike is sooner in my future than I would have hoped.

Kieran, we need ebikes to keep up with this new breed of superhuman kid who climbs 2000ft on DH rigs like theyre on world cup XC bikes. I feel no shame!


 Last edited by: Ddean on April 2, 2019, 12:46 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
April 2, 2019, 3:18 p.m.
Posts: 434
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Ddean

After riding up No Quarter to 7th with Cameron two weeks ago, he on his SHOCKER and me on my E29, I think that an ebike is sooner in my future than I would have hoped.

Kieran, we need ebikes to keep up with this new breed of superhuman kid who climbs 2000ft on DH rigs like theyre on world cup XC bikes. I feel no shame!

Or just ride more. I believe you can do it! Crush that kid.

April 3, 2019, 2:14 a.m.
Posts: 2053
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).

Enjoy your one lap riding from where ever in the city to the top of one of the local riding areas. Maybe they can put a charging station in at the trail heads for you. I drive/ ride my bike over the Ironworkers everyday to and from work and have never seen one E-Mtb headed for a trail ride. Seen lots on the back of trucks though, usually Tacomas, they are electric too right?

Finally figured out what the "E" stands for.... Excuses

you don't get my point. i just find it kinda hypocritical to moan the "destruction" of trails (aka scratching the top soil) by e-bikers while at the same time everybody is cool with really destroying the environment (aka causing global warming).  just say you are entitled to these trails and don't want too many people using them, would be more believable...

April 3, 2019, 8:03 a.m.
Posts: 1173
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

I do get your point. I have not once moaned about destruction of trails, want them for myself? Laughable.

I was out on Breamar last night after work, 530 pm. You would think now that we have this rain cycle for the next week it would have been packed. How many riders did I see out there? About 6 in 2 hours, was super jammed. I could care less about numbers, happy to see people and say hi. That is such a lame argument, ya we wanna hog the trails for ourselves.

Just don't wanna lose trail access due to conflict, from electric motorbikes riding trails not built for them.

That's all


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on April 3, 2019, 8:03 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 3, 2019, 8:54 a.m.
Posts: 725
Joined: Aug. 14, 2003

And don't think the bespectacled protectors of the frogs who hate all bikes aren't just rubbing their grubby little hands together with glee as bikers quarrel among themselves over the respective virtues (or lack thereof) of emtb and mtb.

Make no mistake, the anti-all-bike rabble will seek to make the most of the ebike issue, and use it to forward their own petty claims to the trails. They won't even bother with booby traps this time.

And THAT is why it is so important that the people that are pushing and marketing ebikes need to step up and address the valid issues regarding their responsible integration into trails. Instead of just sticking their thumbs up and saying "just ride" or "be rad" and marketing blah blah blah, they need to actually acknowledge there are some legitimate issues, and articulate a strategy for dealing with them.... Insurance, directional trails, responsible use of (now motorized) machines when mixing with other trail users, and potential trail impact issues (still subject to debate).  We should be looking to get past the baseless issues (i.e. how people feel or what they think they've earned), and focus on the concrete issues that matter when it comes to trail access and actual impacts on trails and other users.

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

April 3, 2019, 9:30 a.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: cerealkilla_

And don't think the bespectacled protectors of the frogs who hate all bikes aren't just rubbing their grubby little hands together with glee as bikers quarrel among themselves over the respective virtues (or lack thereof) of emtb and mtb.

Make no mistake, the anti-all-bike rabble will seek to make the most of the ebike issue, and use it to forward their own petty claims to the trails. They won't even bother with booby traps this time.

And THAT is why it is so important that the people that are pushing and marketing ebikes need to step up and address the valid issues regarding their responsible integration into trails. Instead of just sticking their thumbs up and saying "just ride" or "be rad" and marketing blah blah blah, they need to actually acknowledge there are some legitimate issues, and articulate a strategy for dealing with them.... Insurance, directional trails, responsible use of (now motorized) machines when mixing with other trail users, and potential trail impact issues (still subject to debate).  We should be looking to get past the baseless issues (i.e. how people feel or what they think they've earned), and focus on the concrete issues that matter when it comes to trail access and actual impacts on trails and other users.

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

great post

April 3, 2019, 10:21 a.m.
Posts: 465
Joined: April 11, 2011

Posted by: cerealkilla_

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

This is super concise.  Does anyone not agree with this?  Not having this conversation while marketing the hell out of e-bikes and waiting to see if they are a fad, is a bewildering approach.

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