You're probably right Andrew. Based on experience I also assume that Rocky's employees are more reasonable. That's why I'm being tounge-in-cheek in response to his post, the arguments presented will unravel on their own.
ebikes on the Shore
Posted by: Brocklanders
No one has a right to these trails, we are guests. The more these things resemble motorbikes, the further we move away from it being mountainbiking to it being a motorsport. Then who knows where it all ends up. Will we lose trail access? I guess it's up to the land managers.
My post was un-necessarily cheeky & sardonic because that's how I deal with sh*t - apologies. I have the same concerns as you, as do many people. I've already seen throttle actuated pedelecs on Seymour for example.
What is most surprising to me, that I tried to capture, is the cultural shift (adoption & acceptance) from the first big dump of snow to this spring. I feel like Rip Van Winkle. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who have gone from extolling the virtues of the self-propelled mountain bike and the local culture to explaining why their unique needs justify* an offroad pedelec.
I'm just really hoping they don't f*** it up for the rest of us. Access, keeping experienced trail builders, relationships with other users - there's a lot potentially at stake to be able to punch out a longer and faster after work lap and it definitely needs to be talked about.
*I chose 'justify' because most these folks I know seem guilty about the choice.
Last edited by: AndrewMajor on March 26, 2019, 10:34 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
As healthy as this thread is/was/shall be, we will all want to begin engaging the land managers and dnv councillors on a personal email level now before the rush of emails coming from hikers who have had near misses from ebikes and wish for all wheeled objects to be removed. There is a real possibility that this will become the main issue we'll be facing whilst we debate on-line who deserves to be riding what on a particular trail. If you're going to type here, make time to type an email as well.
As much as we have a healthy and robust advocacy association, we've all seen that trail usage and trail building permitting is always seen from a land manager standpoint - if there is enough movement from one voting bloc, then that will become the reality. Make sure as mountain bikers, our deck gets stacked.
MrSimmons can bark all he wants but you still can't ebike on DNV land and he knows it.
Posted by: LoamtoHome
MrSimmons can bark all he wants but you still can't ebike on DNV land and he knows it.
Reference please. Is there some documentation of this?
Posted by: shoreboy
Posted by: LoamtoHome
MrSimmons can bark all he wants but you still can't ebike on DNV land and he knows it.
Reference please. Is there some documentation of this?
I looked into this about 3yrs ago and found a page within the DNV bylaws that prohibited the use of motorized bikes on dnv parkland. I recall posting the link, along with a link to the Metro rules as well. The gray area for DNV was whether the trails were considered parks.
I’ll take a look around and see if I can dig it up
Just got a response from DNV
People always ask me what's the phenomenon
Yo what's up? Yo what's goin' on- Adam Yauch
Posted by: FlipFantasia
I just hope all these e-proponents step up for the maintenance and advocacy side like they claim will happen....after a couple decades in the game, I'm spent and pretty much done. Holding out hope that we don't see a resurgence in user conflict or overuse due to ease of speed and access, but generally people suck and are selfish, so I'm staying cynical. It's been tough the past few years even without the extra users from moto-bicycles, not sure how much more capacity our trails have at this point and I know we're seeing increasing push back against new trail development here in Whistler, so expect trails to get more congested, imo.
Thanks for all the work you've done in Whistler over the years dude. The #1 thing I think about up there is assholes on ebikes getting Lord of the Squirrels shut down. Too out of shape or not enough time on your Whistler weekend to pedal up? No problem, just rip it up on a rental ebike! Be sure to drag your brakes through all the corners on the descent too!
Yup, "give me convenience or give me death". It's going to get weird and grim if any consensus can't be reached
I spent 8 years watching SUPs take over breaks in SoCal which just ended up in bloody skirmishes of entitlement.
Posted by: Brocklanders
Just got a response from DNV
found the post I was referencing earlier.
Posted by: syncro
ok here's a couple links:
http://www.metrovancouver.org/boards/bylaws/Bylaws/GVRD_Bylaw_1177.pdf
http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/ID/freeside/96318_05with the key points being:
Metro - motor assisted cycle has the same meaning as in the B.C. Motor Vehicle Act and regulations under that Act, and includes electric motor assisted cycles
BCMVA - "cycle" means a device having any number of wheels that is propelled by human power and on which a person may ride and includes a motor assisted cycle, but does not include a skate board, roller skates or in-line roller skates;
Metro - 10.2 No person shall use or operate a motor assisted cycle or motor vehicle except on and within a roadway or parking lot.
so after a cursory read it would appear that on metro land ebikes are not allowed on the trails.
and for the dnv it's a bit more succinct in "Motorized Vehicles Are Not Permitted on Parks Trails"
from this thread 3.5 years ago when we first got into a flap over ebikes
https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/the-shore-3/topic/moab-blm-bans-e-bikes-3279/?page=1
Like Mr Simmons has said above much speculation on many different fronts makes this a very complicated subject.
As a builder of the Shore my worst fears are already front and center and I see E-bikes accelerating what is going on the shore. We now have a potential
user group that without much effort getting into areas that were previously earned through hard work and many hard learned experiences.
Will this new user group demand a easy access up and down? who can say... But we are losing iconic features that define the shore each and every year.
Will motorized e-bikes be the tipping point on previously safe trail features that were fine to ride with human powered bikes?
This is not speculation on my part. We are actually being mandated by land mangers in removing iconic features that have always been the part of the shore.
little by little we lose what comes to easy.
I've heard that people on E-bikes are 10 times more likely to run over frogs than people on acoustic bikes.
(There, that should do it....)
Posted by: trumpstinyhands
I've heard that people on E-bikes are 10 times more likely to run over frogs than people on acoustic bikes.
(There, that should do it....)
that could make people around here more inclined to ride ebikes
An acoustic bike sounds like something the hipsters on their fixes came up with, laugh everytime I hear it.
Yes- Ebikers are frog killers
it's obvious this is coming and the sport will change hugely.
if anyone thinks the changes will all be for the good they are probably delusional. this is directed at the e-bike proponents who don't want to even acknowledge there could be downsides.
in 10-20 years when the sport has increased in size 5-10x and the trails are flooded with people, we'll look back on the pre- e-bike days fondly. how would fromme and seymour do with even a doubling in ridership? parking is already at capacity.
at some point the bike tech, and continued erosion of trail technicality, is going to make this sport so mainstream that we'll long for the old days when the trails were hard, the bikes were shitty, and you actually had to propel yourself uphill.
ultimately as a trail builder, i will move to greener pastures or give up entirely and move on to other sports, if the flood of entitled and ignorant e-bike riders is as bad as i fear it could be. interest in working on trails for e-bike newbs is around zero.
Last edited by: oldmanbuilder on March 27, 2019, 12:10 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
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