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ebikes on the Shore

March 20, 2021, 3:13 p.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: mudrunner

Posted by: pete@nsmb.com

Posted by: tashi

....This is not just noobs, either - some of these riders look like they know what they're doing, but they're mentally checking out when they get on the e-bike, and it's not helping the issue.

It's a fact. I had one guy blast past our group of 4 twice on Mtn Hghwy (he did Bobsled before heading up to Expresso). Both times without  warning and full steam ahead....no acknowledgement at all. The second time I asked him for some warning. He stopped, slowed down and rode with us for a bit...turns out I know him.  He apologised and said he just got the bike and was having a a blast....this is a fellow with many years of Shore experience. I was quite quite surprised.

Some odd editing here, I did not say these things.

Sorry tashi....those words are attributed to Pete@nsmb.com. I just deleted everything else and it shows as your comment...I'll correct that.

March 20, 2021, 4:07 p.m.
Posts: 26
Joined: July 16, 2020

Posted by: DaveM

Posted by: mudrunner

It's a fact. I had one guy blast past our group of 4 twice on Mtn Hghwy (he did Bobsled before heading up to Expresso). Both times without warning and full steam ahead....no acknowledgement at all. The second time I asked him for some warning. He stopped, slowed down and rode with us for a bit...turns out I know him. He apologised and said he just got the bike and was having a a blast....this is a fellow with many years of Shore experience. I was quite quite surprised.

Most everyone I know and have spoken to on the trails have been riding for a long time.

I'm more pissed when I'm slogging up a climb and someone flies past me and I see they aren't on an e-bike :)

Haha if I had a dollar for every time I was passed climbing and thought "wtf he's fast...oh well he must be on an e-... jeezus h!"

March 20, 2021, 5:04 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan. 19, 2004

I use a Polar Vantage M. Same loop, stats as follows:

Normal bike, 5.4km lap, average hr 143, 550 calories burned. 45 min ride. Peak hr 176

Bike, same ride, more distance at 9.5km. Average hr 146, 426 calories burned. 37 minute ride. Peak hr 178

March 20, 2021, 5:05 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan. 19, 2004

Posted by: peterk

Posted by: Mulletron

I rode my regular bike today, brought my dogs with me because it is much easier for the older one to keep up. Short ride, just under 6kms, ~260m elevation gain. In and out in 45 minutes, had a meeting cancel and I had a window. I cooked 550 calories. 

When I ride my ebike, I can generally get in 30-40% more trail in the same period of time, and I'll burn about 20% more calories over the same period of time - it's a different kind of workout. Instead of the painful slower cadence, it feels more like riding a road bike or a spin bike. You need to run a cadence north of 70rpm to get into the fun zone on the ebike. My (older) dog doesn't like it as much. 

It is what you make it. I think it is most important to have fun on your bike(s) and spend less time taking the piss out of eachother, unless of course it is earned by being a jerk on the trails, but unfortunately those folks exist on every type of bike out there.

Interesting, I think it might come down to you being more motivated to pedal harder when you see the scenery flying by. I know it seems easier for me to push harder with a tailwind than a headwind. What device are you using to track calories? What were the average heart rates for both of the rides? I only ask because I feel like while my Lezyne bike computer says it uses heart rate to track calories, I can have two rides with similar average HR, but it gives me more "calories" for a road ride vs a mtb ride because I am covering more distance.

Sorry, I replied to this but indirectly in the post above!

March 21, 2021, 5:46 p.m.
Posts: 425
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Posted by: Mulletron

I use a Polar Vantage M. Same loop, stats as follows:

Normal bike, 5.4km lap, average hr 143, 550 calories burned. 45 min ride. Peak hr 176

Bike, same ride, more distance at 9.5km. Average hr 146, 426 calories burned. 37 minute ride. Peak hr 178

I don't think there's any debate on if a person *can* get a similar workout using an ebike, but I'm not sure that's really the point.

In my experience the majority of users are people who appear to be  basically on autopilot and totally unaware of other people, they seem to either have no context for, or have forgotten about, how tough climbing can be on an unassisted bike and they just literally don't give a shit (or, are forgetting to give a shit in that moment, but whatever, result is the same). 

I can't help but think hikers often think this about mountain bikers in general, so it does remind me to be extra courteous to other trail users. 

Regardless I totally hate when these guys just come screaming up on me and hug my back tire.  If I wanted to be oppressed by motorized vehicles while riding I'd become a fucking roadie, seriously.

March 22, 2021, 11:19 a.m.
Posts: 16695
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: skooks

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: thaaad

It's not about being friends... and it's less of an acknowledgment thing and more of a mutual respect thing. Basically the reason why turn signals and brake lights exist in cars, make people aware of what others (and yourself) are doing for the safety and consideration of everyone when you are in public.

I'm sure nobody appreciates being passed too close at too high of a speed on the highway. Just have some courtesy, let people know you are passing, slow as you go by and give both of you a little room.

It's really not hard at all to treat others with respect, ebikes, cars, sidewalks, whatever.

This ... and it also applies to ebikes tailgating me when I'm huffing my way up something like the GSM climb.  My goal is to be able to clean that climb regularly without stopping, and I don't need some dumbass with their high pitched motor whining away, nipping at my back wheel as a not-so-subtle hint that they want me to stop and let them pass.  Trust me, I know you're there, and if I spot a wide part of the trail where you can fit, than I will hug the edge and let you pass.  Until then, stay the hell back and wait your turn.  It's similar to the logic for the "climber has right of way" rule when passing on a bi-directional trail.  Climber gets to continue because it's much harder for the climber to stop, reset and restart than the descender.  The ebike can stop and restart more easily than the non-e-climber.

I mostly agree with you, although I would rather let an e-bike get past me than have listen to one whining behind my back wheel. My question is are you more willing to stop and let a faster rider pass you on a climb if they are on a pedal-powered bike instead of a motorized one?  I'm not trying to stir the pot here, just interested in the answer.

I think any rider that come up behind another rider should stay back a little and wait for a reasonable opportunity (and not put pressure on the lead climber by hugging the back wheel) where the trail is wider and a little more level.

That in mind, I know I'm nowhere near the fastest climber on the hill, but I climb well enough that there aren't a LOT of non-motorized riders crowding up behind me.  So my experience is by far the ebikes climbing up my ass.

And, even when a faster climber does catch me, the deltaV isn't nearly as much with the ebiker.  So my climbing isn't slowing down the non-moto by a lot (unless it's some World Cup level XC or Enduro racer!).  The ebiker comes up fast, hugs my back wheel and stays there, essentially making the silent "get outta my way" statement.

So bottom line, I don't feel I should give way to any climber, I ride so as to be aware of when I can move to the side to let a faster climber pass, and my experience with being pressured to allow a pass is massively tilted toward the ebikers.

March 22, 2021, 3:04 p.m.
Posts: 182
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Posted by: KenN

I think any rider that come up behind another rider should stay back a little and wait for a reasonable opportunity (and not put pressure on the lead climber by hugging the back wheel) where the trail is wider and a little more level.

That in mind, I know I'm nowhere near the fastest climber on the hill, but I climb well enough that there aren't a LOT of non-motorized riders crowding up behind me.  So my experience is by far the ebikes climbing up my ass.

And, even when a faster climber does catch me, the deltaV isn't nearly as much with the ebiker.  So my climbing isn't slowing down the non-moto by a lot (unless it's some World Cup level XC or Enduro racer!).  The ebiker comes up fast, hugs my back wheel and stays there, essentially making the silent "get outta my way" statement.

So bottom line, I don't feel I should give way to any climber, I ride so as to be aware of when I can move to the side to let a faster climber pass, and my experience with being pressured to allow a pass is massively tilted toward the ebikers.

This is exactly how it's gone for me, in my experiences riding the shore and running into ebikes. Never really an issue when climbing fire road or double-track, but it's single track climbs where it gets bad. 

For the record, I'll literally jump right out the way, trying not to break an Uber-climber's cadence, because they've earned the ability to climb that fast. Not at all the same for an E-Man (or lady), but I'll certainly let them by when it's convenient.

March 23, 2021, 3:48 p.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: April 14, 2020

That sad moment when you let someone pass on the climb trail and then look down to see that they are NOT on an e-bike but are moving at twice your speed.

March 23, 2021, 5:57 p.m.
Posts: 2055
Joined: April 25, 2003

Fast people are REALLY fucking fast.

March 23, 2021, 6:29 p.m.
Posts: 18108
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Posted by: meloroast

Haha if I had a dollar for every time I was passed climbing and thought "wtf he's fast...oh well he must be on an e-... jeezus h!"

I was so tired of the guys on lighter bikes passing me, I bought one.  But they got lighter bikes too. FML.

March 23, 2021, 8:54 p.m.
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: heckler

Posted by: meloroast

Haha if I had a dollar for every time I was passed climbing and thought "wtf he's fast...oh well he must be on an e-... jeezus h!"

I was so tired of the guys on lighter bikes passing me, I bought one.  But they got lighter bikes too. FML.

yeah damn those all carbon eMTB's ridden by fast and fit riders....

March 24, 2021, 7:50 a.m.
Posts: 799
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Zowsch

That sad moment when you let someone pass on the climb trail and then look down to see that they are NOT on an e-bike but are moving at twice your speed.

Just remember there's someone out there who makes that guy feel sad about his fitness too. There's always a bigger fish.

March 24, 2021, 11:05 a.m.
Posts: 1728
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: craw

Posted by: Zowsch

That sad moment when you let someone pass on the climb trail and then look down to see that they are NOT on an e-bike but are moving at twice your speed.

Just remember there's someone out there who makes that guy feel sad about his fitness too. There's always a bigger fish.

I will laugh if  ever see Lance Armstrong on an ebike

March 24, 2021, 12:35 p.m.
Posts: 33664
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

For 6500 Euros you can rock an American Chopper ebike on the shore.

https://pjdelectric.com/pre-order/ols/products/pjd-e-pre-order-deposit

March 24, 2021, 3:51 p.m.
Posts: 799
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: switch

For 6500 Euros you can rock an American Chopper ebike on the shore.

https://pjdelectric.com/pre-order/ols/products/pjd-e-pre-order-deposit

That's got some style. If you're less interested in dignity check out Tony Ellsworth's new ebike monstrosity. The aesthetics don't disappoint.

https://theridebikes.com/

https://electrek.co/2020/10/15/tony-ellsworth-launches-fancy-new-belt-drive-carbon-frame-e-bike/

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