New posts

ebikes on the Shore

Dec. 6, 2019, 10:11 a.m.
Posts: 448
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: pepperjerome1

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Nice to have you as a new member. I think you have summed up the pluses of an ebike nicely. It sounds like a great activity for you. I think the issues with ebikes are not adressed by your post though.

1-you point out that you like it because you can ride so much more so much faster. That means substantially more trail wear. Do uphills and flat corners need to be built like a flow trail now with bermed corners to account for ebike wear and tear? I think motorcycle enthusiasts would say the exact same things about their KTM's that you said about your ebike (different workout due to weight, can go so far, everything is so fast and fun) but there is a reason we don't let motocross bikes on mtb trails - they cause too much wear. Bike trails are largely made by bikers for bikers on a volunteer basis. Allowing people doing a different sport to use (and wear) the trails is not a forgone conclusion, but the bike industry certainly pushes ebikes as just a better bike and assumes access without finding solutions for the issues such as right of way, climbing a descent trail, increased trail maintenance etc.

2-many riders find the advertising of ebikes as the "evolution of the bicycle" simply wrong. The bike industry uses this argument to assume access for their product to mtb trails. It's frustrating to have to argue against the industry and ebike owners for the sake of trail maintenance and access all the time. You yourself point out that "e-biking is a different bicycle sport than XC, enduro or DH." What would you say if you were riding your DH bike at whistler and an XC rider was climbing the trail? You probably wouldn't appreciate that? It would be nice if the e-bike enthusiasts could have consideration for the decades of hard work that has gone into gaining access and developing the amazing trail networks we enjoy by not assuming access, bringing solutions to the table and not claiming their ebike is the evolution of the bicycle.

This all being said, I am glad you enjoy your ebike. Sounds like the right choice for you. As for your question as to what I would like to see on the shore. I think hiking is a great activity, low impact and should be welcomed. That being said, I don't think they should hike up downhill trails. Same as I shouldn't ride down hiking trails. As for multi-use trails, bikers should show more respect to hikers IMO. Horses are horrible for trails IMO. Luckily they don't love going down the trails on the shore. I have no issue sharing multi-use trails with them either. I put ebikes in with motorcycles. I don't mind them but I wouldn't mind if they were on their own trails either. Again, wouldn't mind sharing multiuse trails with them but I do have concerns about how they will develop (increased power) and how that will affect trails and safety.

Dec. 6, 2019, 3:19 p.m.
Posts: 1444
Joined: April 25, 2003

Dec. 6, 2019, 5:38 p.m.
Posts: 128
Joined: May 13, 2014

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:09 p.m.
Posts: 737
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Oooooo..... whatcha gonna do?

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:10 p.m.
Posts: 737
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: pepperjerome1

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Ballsy first post. Good for you.

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:27 p.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Oooooo..... whatcha gonna do?

lol, yeah I laughed at that post too

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:32 p.m.
Posts: 448
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: pepperjerome1

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Ballsy first post. Good for you.

Best post of the year flatch. But seriously, pepperjerome1 you'll fit in here fine. Don't let us run you off the forum. You just happened to post in the most inflammatory thread on the site (hence 57 pages and still going).

Dec. 6, 2019, 8:46 p.m.
Posts: 1474
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Don't worry, the MTB versions aren't selling here in BC like the bike Industry has hoped . Those who are plugging  them are getting a small reward for doing so which is the norm in bike industry sponsorship racket . Been in between contracts for the last couple weeks and been riding every day on the shore. Zero sightings, really don't think they are going to catch on. I used to be up in arms about what could be, but could care less about them now. Just a shitty motorbike

Dec. 7, 2019, 10:08 a.m.
Posts: 805
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I think that if ebikers 1) never ask a rider to move over (especially on an uphill), 2) never make an unsafe pass, and 3) never ride up a descent trail, the world will be fine with them. Its all about rider behaviour in my view.

I dont think that theyll catch on here either until they are way lighter. I dont think that they will endure the pounding and, while I have not riden one, I think that their mass will be a bigger detriment descending than their motor will be overall. Maybe on smooth trails like Espresso or John Deer, but Im not so sure the masses would like to go down Ladies or Bookwus or Pipeline on one.

Dec. 7, 2019, 10:27 a.m.
Posts: 1127
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

There's been a steady waterfall of them being dumped in the classifieds. 

Perhaps people learned there was more to consider than E-BIKES ARE FUN.

Dec. 7, 2019, 12:53 p.m.
Posts: 1524
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

Posted by: pepperjerome1

... normally aspirated biking ...

Can't decide if this is a more, or less, ridiculous description than "acoustic bikes".

Dec. 7, 2019, 4:59 p.m.
Posts: 128
Joined: May 13, 2014

I ride Fromme regularly and see at least one or two zip up the road when I get out of D'yer Maker.  I think since most new initiates that would buy them are likely to find the sticker shock too much to handle it would be for a limited few, but of the ones I have seen on Fromme:  either older types that would be inclined to buy one; a noob with no idea (or whom zips up only to ride the road back down........seen this twice) or riders that motor up as fast as possible to avoid any heckling as they know acceptance is not common.  Eagle, for example, allows motos there......have at it.   But not Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Burke or the Woodlot.

Dec. 7, 2019, 5:31 p.m.
Posts: 737
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: blackfly

I ride Fromme regularly and see at least one or two zip up the road when I get out of D'yer Maker. I think since most new initiates that would buy them are likely to find the sticker shock too much to handle it would be for a limited few, but of the ones I have seen on Fromme: either older types that would be inclined to buy one; a noob with no idea (or whom zips up only to ride the road back down........seen this twice) or riders that motor up as fast as possible to avoid any heckling as they know acceptance is not common. Eagle, for example, allows motos there......have at it. But not Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Burke or the Woodlot.

I ride mine at Burke and the Woodlot regularly. I ride a red Commencal, introduce yourself sometime.

Oh, and feel free to heckle, I find it laughable.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on Dec. 7, 2019, 5:39 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Humour
Dec. 8, 2019, 11:51 a.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 2, 2018

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: blackfly

I ride Fromme regularly and see at least one or two zip up the road when I get out of D'yer Maker. I think since most new initiates that would buy them are likely to find the sticker shock too much to handle it would be for a limited few, but of the ones I have seen on Fromme: either older types that would be inclined to buy one; a noob with no idea (or whom zips up only to ride the road back down........seen this twice) or riders that motor up as fast as possible to avoid any heckling as they know acceptance is not common. Eagle, for example, allows motos there......have at it. But not Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Burke or the Woodlot.

I ride mine at Burke and the Woodlot regularly. I ride a red Commencal, introduce yourself sometime.

Oh, and feel free to heckle, I find it laughable.

All I really do these days is heckle with a smile, mostly out of jealousy that I'm dying on long climbs and they're not. But I'll be happy once the trail is pointed downhill again.

Our only issue down here is the US of A is the legality of motorized VS non-motorized vehicles and trail access. It has yet to come to a head, but there is a potential that electric motorized bicycles could be detrimental for trail access on many trail systems that are strictly non-motorized. Until this becomes an actual issue I can't be a zealot against E-bikes like I instinctively wanted to be.

Dec. 9, 2019, 5:09 p.m.
Posts: 89
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

I am super curious about your last sentence. If someone was coming up fast behind you on a (pedal) bike, would you let them pass? Why would it be different if they were on a moped?  I would much rather have them pass me than have to listen to the motor all the way up the hill.

Forum jump: