New posts

ebikes on the Shore

Nov. 28, 2019, 8:54 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: cerealkilla_

3) Then there are those that will stop pedaling very hard at all, because now they have an engine doing the work for them. Okay.

Overall, I would suggest that the main marketing thrust of ebikes is focused at people that will likely end up in category #3, and in sum this will not in any way enhance the average (across all riders) fitness of the ridership. It will just give an easy way out for those that don't really like pedaling.

Fine, who cares? I don't. Some will get fitter and some will get fatter.

Yes cat 3 100%- humans are lazy overall.

This data pinkbike has posted couldn't be any further from the truth in my experience. As I have posted before I have rode my bike up NQ I don't know how many times. I have rode an ebike up it when I took a demo out and it was effortless in comparison.

These bikes have an engine on them we get it, why can't the people pushing them try to pretend it's a normal bike? It's not.... Of course it's going to be easier that's the whole idea. I guess they are paying pinkbike and all the shills to say otherwise because they aren't selling as they hoped? That's what I have heard from the shop peeps. The commuters sell like crazy the MTB versions not so much. If it was the same workout then that Kona trail builder bike with the chainsaw and saddle bags must be a bitch to ride with 50 pounds of gear on it? No it's not, it's motorized that's the whole idea.

You ride one, great, enjoy the trails, glad you are out there. You have your reasons for riding one, fine but going door to door trying to sell it to us like a jehovas witness is getting tired.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Nov. 28, 2019, 8:55 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Nov. 28, 2019, 9:03 a.m.
Posts: 402
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

For me it’s the entire we need ebikes for the sport to grow as if that is a good thing. It’s the Idiocracy of near sightedness. It’s not a good thing. Let’s not kid ourselves. Ebikes are targeted toward the riders that put a premium on downhill “runs” and want to do more of that in a given time period.

Nov. 28, 2019, 12:03 p.m.
Posts: 4953
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

Posted by: Brocklander

This data pinkbike has posted couldn't be any further from the truth in my experience. As I have posted before I have rode my bike up NQ I don't know how many times. I have rode an ebike up it when I took a demo out and it was effortless in comparison.

for sure. i can't foresee even approaching the kind of anaerobic exertion you get on tech climbs with an ebike. not that it's an argument for or against, it just seems kinda spurious. perhaps the exertion equivalency is true for more recreational riders that don't embrace entering the pain cave.

Nov. 28, 2019, 1:26 p.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: xy9ine

Posted by: Brocklander

This data pinkbike has posted couldn't be any further from the truth in my experience. As I have posted before I have rode my bike up NQ I don't know how many times. I have rode an ebike up it when I took a demo out and it was effortless in comparison.

for sure. i can't foresee even approaching the kind of anaerobic exertion you get on tech climbs with an ebike. not that it's an argument for or against, it just seems kinda spurious. perhaps the exertion equivalency is true for more recreational riders that don't embrace entering the pain cave.

Exactly. If it's not easier to ride a motorized MTB what is the point? Feels like the bike Industry is grabbing at straws. It's easier but just as hard ? Negative ghost rider, no way. More distance travelled for same amount of time in saddle yes, but exertion pushing watts way less.

Nov. 29, 2019, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 803
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: xy9ine

Posted by: Brocklander

This data pinkbike has posted couldn't be any further from the truth in my experience. As I have posted before I have rode my bike up NQ I don't know how many times. I have rode an ebike up it when I took a demo out and it was effortless in comparison.

for sure. i can't foresee even approaching the kind of anaerobic exertion you get on tech climbs with an ebike. not that it's an argument for or against, it just seems kinda spurious. perhaps the exertion equivalency is true for more recreational riders that don't embrace entering the pain cave.

My friends on them say the ebike sort of levels your exertion If you map It out over an entire ride. They don' t work as hard on the climbs but the bike Is heavier all the time and provides a different sort of workout. They tell me the ebike makes technical climbing as fun as flat or descending technical riding - now the climb is just another trail to ride instead of something difficult to endure. People who like to suffer can still suffer as much as they want. I'm not really for or against but I find these comments Interesting.

Nov. 29, 2019, 12:10 p.m.
Posts: 3564
Joined: May 23, 2006

But.... but.. the ebike advocates .......ebike specific advocacy groups ...... (industry supported)

Dec. 6, 2019, 8:11 a.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: Dec. 6, 2019

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Dec. 6, 2019, 10:11 a.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: pepperjerome1

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Nice to have you as a new member. I think you have summed up the pluses of an ebike nicely. It sounds like a great activity for you. I think the issues with ebikes are not adressed by your post though.

1-you point out that you like it because you can ride so much more so much faster. That means substantially more trail wear. Do uphills and flat corners need to be built like a flow trail now with bermed corners to account for ebike wear and tear? I think motorcycle enthusiasts would say the exact same things about their KTM's that you said about your ebike (different workout due to weight, can go so far, everything is so fast and fun) but there is a reason we don't let motocross bikes on mtb trails - they cause too much wear. Bike trails are largely made by bikers for bikers on a volunteer basis. Allowing people doing a different sport to use (and wear) the trails is not a forgone conclusion, but the bike industry certainly pushes ebikes as just a better bike and assumes access without finding solutions for the issues such as right of way, climbing a descent trail, increased trail maintenance etc.

2-many riders find the advertising of ebikes as the "evolution of the bicycle" simply wrong. The bike industry uses this argument to assume access for their product to mtb trails. It's frustrating to have to argue against the industry and ebike owners for the sake of trail maintenance and access all the time. You yourself point out that "e-biking is a different bicycle sport than XC, enduro or DH." What would you say if you were riding your DH bike at whistler and an XC rider was climbing the trail? You probably wouldn't appreciate that? It would be nice if the e-bike enthusiasts could have consideration for the decades of hard work that has gone into gaining access and developing the amazing trail networks we enjoy by not assuming access, bringing solutions to the table and not claiming their ebike is the evolution of the bicycle.

This all being said, I am glad you enjoy your ebike. Sounds like the right choice for you. As for your question as to what I would like to see on the shore. I think hiking is a great activity, low impact and should be welcomed. That being said, I don't think they should hike up downhill trails. Same as I shouldn't ride down hiking trails. As for multi-use trails, bikers should show more respect to hikers IMO. Horses are horrible for trails IMO. Luckily they don't love going down the trails on the shore. I have no issue sharing multi-use trails with them either. I put ebikes in with motorcycles. I don't mind them but I wouldn't mind if they were on their own trails either. Again, wouldn't mind sharing multiuse trails with them but I do have concerns about how they will develop (increased power) and how that will affect trails and safety.

Dec. 6, 2019, 3:19 p.m.
Posts: 2070
Joined: April 25, 2003

Dec. 6, 2019, 5:38 p.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: May 13, 2014

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:09 p.m.
Posts: 1258
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Oooooo..... whatcha gonna do?

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:10 p.m.
Posts: 1258
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: pepperjerome1

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Ballsy first post. Good for you.

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:27 p.m.
Posts: 1767
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Oooooo..... whatcha gonna do?

lol, yeah I laughed at that post too

Dec. 6, 2019, 7:32 p.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: pepperjerome1

New member on NSMB, please forgive me if I'm missing the point on a few things that have already been discussed. I am an e-bike rider and I am a downhill rider. Yes e-bikes are big in Europe and will probably get bigger here in North America. 

I'm just curious that given the choice, would you rather see more hikers, horseback riders or e bike riders on the shore?

More than anything, there is proper trail etiquette and I am always conscious of letting someone clear a pitch before asking if I can pass. An a*hole is an A*hole, whether it's on a e-bike or an XC strava kind of guy. Everybody is getting older and you reach a point where you realize that if it makes you more happy to use an e-bike to travel further and get more fun, it becomes a no-brainer. After purchasing my used e-bike, I ended up selling my Trek Slash that gathered dust for 2 months before I made the move. Now my e-bike is my training bike because it is 52 pounds and when I get on my DH, it feels like nothing!

A few very important points about e-bikes that I have discovered:

1-e-bikes can be the great equalizer in terms of climbing in cases where the climb is not technical

2-e-bikes will quickly point out your biggest flaws, i.e. if you are a bad technical climber, the e-bike can be quite a handful given the delay in power to the rear wheel in key situations. Same goes for pointing it downhill, it is 52 pounds and requires more abilities if you ride technical descents.

3-e-biking is a different bicycle sport than xc, enduro or DH as your effort is more constant as opposed to peaking when climbing and low on descent. most of the time I pedal my heart out on the e-bike because that is what all of us have been doing on group rides for ever and that means more opportunity for descents in a short amount of time.

4-e-bikes could create bigger problems if someone is not ready for the backcountry. That being said any numpty could also get in trouble in the backcountry even hiking, normally aspirated biking or horseback riding.

5- the smiles per miles ratio is off the charts as railing a berm going uphill and feeling like you are going downhill speeds when you are on the flats is very, very fun (if you have really good twisty trails)

I think it is important to have varied views on this subject, as it is an emerging sport and we should be sure that it doesn't create more problems than it brings opportunities for more people.

I am happy that some people are willing to progress their thinking (56 pages on this thread!) and some people will try an e-bike then they can really appreciate that it's not for everyone but the ones who do have them love them!

Ballsy first post. Good for you.

Best post of the year flatch. But seriously, pepperjerome1 you'll fit in here fine. Don't let us run you off the forum. You just happened to post in the most inflammatory thread on the site (hence 57 pages and still going).

Dec. 6, 2019, 8:46 p.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Don't worry, the MTB versions aren't selling here in BC like the bike Industry has hoped . Those who are plugging  them are getting a small reward for doing so which is the norm in bike industry sponsorship racket . Been in between contracts for the last couple weeks and been riding every day on the shore. Zero sightings, really don't think they are going to catch on. I used to be up in arms about what could be, but could care less about them now. Just a shitty motorbike

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