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ebikes on the Shore

Sept. 2, 2019, 10:37 p.m.
Posts: 998
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

It seems your “issues” are slowly being debunked as we move along as well.

The terms bike and e-bike do just fine.

Right of way to the uphill rider is a rule of trail etiquette that goes back decades. It is based on the fact that uphill riders are working their buts off and it is difficult to get started up again once you put a foot down whereas downhill riders can pull over and restart more easily. 

I saw a promotional video for an ebike that showed the guy climbing a downhill trail at whistler including riding up a wall ride. Who gives right of way in that situation?

Sept. 3, 2019, 12:09 a.m.
Posts: 3461
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: RAHrider

I saw a promotional video for an ebike that showed the guy climbing a downhill trail at whistler including riding up a wall ride. Who gives right of way in that situation?

Tonnage.

Sept. 3, 2019, 4:30 a.m.
Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

Why would you say that? One of the few and probably main issue I have with ebikes is that they give people the ability to go significantly faster on flat and uphills trails where passing is most likely to occur. With a higher speed differential the potential of some sort of collision goes up. This is especially true if the person on an ebike is being impatient and is focused mostly on their ride and not giving much consideration to other trail uses. IMHO this is exactly why land managers should step forward with some set of ground rules for trail users to follow and publicize those rules on the trail with adequate signage.

With the present rules as I’ve always understood them bikes give way to everyone else regardless of direction or effort. When it comes to other bikes uphill has right of way. Nothing to do with effort. The horse is not working any harder, the hiker, maybe but can certainly step out of the way easy enough but that’s not the rule. I think when it comes to e bikes on single track catching up to bikes they should just get in line and pass when they are welcomed to. Any other behaviour is simply bullshit.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on Sept. 3, 2019, 4:37 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 3, 2019, 4:40 a.m.
Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

It seems your “issues” are slowly being debunked as we move along as well.

The terms bike and e-bike do just fine.

Right of way to the uphill rider is a rule of trail etiquette that goes back decades. It is based on the fact that uphill riders are working their buts off and it is difficult to get started up again once you put a foot down whereas downhill riders can pull over and restart more easily. 

I saw a promotional video for an ebike that showed the guy climbing a downhill trail at whistler including riding up a wall ride. Who gives right of way in that situation?

Buddy shouldn’t be climbing an uphill trail, simple as that.

Sept. 3, 2019, 11:12 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: sandy-james-oates

I live in the Koots, E bikes are out here too, you just didn’t see them.

I'm sure they are.

Went to Morning Mountain on Saturday morning (Labour day weekend) there was maybe 5 vehicles at the lot, at the bottoms up climb start. Saw a couple riders here and there on the Powerslave/Bear Den/ Placenta loop, very few considering it was the weekend. Same for Mountain Station, saw maybe 3/4 riders.  If that was the Fromme lot there is usually a lineup of cars, people waiting at the trailheads to ride. Just don't see any ebike user conflict happening there in the Koots, hardly anyone on the trails. The Shore - Howe Sound Corridor on the other hand has to get it's ducks in a row pretty quick. User conflict is going to be on the menu soon.

Sept. 3, 2019, 12:22 p.m.
Posts: 393
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

My views on the ebike thing have softened of late. The only riders I’ve seen on them in the Whistler valley so far or older guys. Guys in their 70’s by the looks of it. My one neighbour as well has post concussion syndrome that doesn’t allow him to go hard. I’m sure there are young bucks out there that use the ebikes to get in more downhill. This may change of course.

At first I was quite put off by the hard sell some people were advancing. I found it mildly insulting as I was told it was more fun as if climbing was not fun. Ebikes they said were the future of mountain bikes. Based on what I am seeing I don’t think that’s going to happen. I also think if ebike riders want a voice in trail access that they need to form their own groups and do so.

So many of the arguments both pro and con on both sides are baseless supposition.


 Last edited by: andy-eunson on Sept. 3, 2019, 3:36 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 3, 2019, 1:18 p.m.
Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

I think when it comes to e bikes on single track catching up to bikes they should just get in line and pass when they are welcomed to. Any other behaviour is simply bullshit.

that's the whole point of what we're saying

Sept. 3, 2019, 1:27 p.m.
Posts: 18067
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Enduro!!!!

With ebikes, lol. 

https://www.endurocuplombardia.it/site/

Sept. 3, 2019, 3:12 p.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: Sept. 3, 2019

Posted by: craw

If you can ride it without pedaling it is by definition not a pedelec.

it goes to scooter category!

Sept. 3, 2019, 11:13 p.m.
Posts: 18067
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Fivers are next.  We start with sponsoring the sweeps with Rock-E’s

Sept. 4, 2019, 4:19 a.m.
Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: FLATCH

I think when it comes to e bikes on single track catching up to bikes they should just get in line and pass when they are welcomed to. Any other behaviour is simply bullshit.

that's the whole point of what we're saying

It’s what I’ve said since page one ffs.

Sept. 4, 2019, 6:52 a.m.
Posts: 891
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Or maybe Fivers starting with the bikes at the start riding to the end and the ebikes at the end riding the course opposite to the start? It would add an extra level of attention and be inclusion for those people with ebikes who cant enter proper fivers! WIN!

:)

Sept. 4, 2019, 8:57 a.m.
Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

It’s what I’ve said since page one ffs.

That’s cool, but your comment “trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort” seemed to say the opposite as it goes against the long accepted standards of trail etiquette. That where the misunderstanding came from.

Sept. 5, 2019, 12:51 a.m.
Posts: 740
Joined: Aug. 14, 2003

Most trails are built with a directional orientation, and this is usually listed in the Section 57 approval (i.e. downhill primary). I would suggest that the person riding the trail in the primary direction holds the right of way, regardless of their propulsion system.

People that ride ebikes up descents cannot expect others to move for them.....that would be looking for special treatment just for them as any other rider would almost certainly not be riding in that direction. If they want to be classified or treated as a MTB, then they should ride like one at least in terms of the direction they ride the trails.  It seems that most people here agree on that point. It's unfortunate that some irresponsible individuals are promoting ebikes by riding them up descents. My main concern from the start was not the technology, but the application. 

As a person with zero desire to ride ebikes, and who has generally been pretty crusty about them being given open range, I can cite two excellent examples of ebikes on the trails recently. Last week, I caught up with a group on a climb. One was a woman I hadn't seen on the trails in years. Like a proud vegan she had to inform me that her new bike was an ebike. I said nice paint job. Main thing I noticed was that it was quiet. Second thing was that she was riding with a group of other MTBs at a fine pace. It is possible. Knowing this person, I realize there is no way she would have been out if not for the motor assist. Good on her.

Second example, Search and Rescue had two early responders attend a critical incident tonight by Ebike. It was a very difficult access point, with no other real way of getting in with their packs. The Ebikes were perfect for it. 

These are good examples. I remain in favor of responsible integration.

Sept. 5, 2019, 4:16 a.m.
Posts: 1239
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: FLATCH

It’s what I’ve said since page one ffs.

That’s cool, but your comment “trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort” seemed to say the opposite as it goes against the long accepted standards of trail etiquette. That where the misunderstanding came from.

I was including all user groups, not just biker v biker.

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