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ebikes on the Shore

Aug. 31, 2019, 12:50 p.m.
Posts: 326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: E-wok

“Stupid” is an opinion-sorry you’re offended, it seems like a nice reference to me😁 , and that’s how a refer to my 3 other vintage bikes.

I agree with the Directional trail signage - all the rest sounds a bit assuming. ( many Ebikers , formally acoustic riders- or still both , have contributed and continue to donate their time and money to local trails).

Again, Once you’ve spent a decent amount of time on a Ebike , you’ll realize the only exception is for informative, directional signage - and that the etiquette is the exactly the SAME for both an E and acoustic bikes. Super simple.

A trail pass and licence for ALL bikes- yikes, I’m not touching that one!

Attitude has to do with the person on the bike- not what kinda bike they’re on.

As far as the bike companies being on board-did they do all of what you are suggesting for them to do now , as when the DH RM -7’s came out?

They made profits then, and now. Same-same.

not offended, but acoustic to describe a bicycle just sounds dumb. acoustic is a term used for sound and musical instruments - not bikes

etiquette is not exactly the same for ebikes and bikes tho, the much higher speeds, especially while climbing,dictates the need for extra care from the person riding an ebike.

re profits, i've argued the same in the past for regular bikes, the difference now is that ebikes allow for more laps hence the potential need for more maintenance.

again i'm not opposed to ebikes, but the discussion just needs to be real and the free for all attiutde that seems to follow ebike proponents is what puts a lot of people off them or hesitant of their acceptance.

Sept. 1, 2019, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 1385
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

X 2 on the acoustic bike thing. So lame.

Just finished up a week-long MTB trip to the Kootenays and didn't see a single emtb. Don't think it's in the wheelhouse for most due to cost. Saw plenty of older guys manning up and climbing the steep ascents in the Nelson area. So at the moment it looks like this will be more of a Howe sound corridor issue where the money is plentiful, and the trails are crowded.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 2, 2019, 1:13 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 2, 2019, 3:17 p.m.
Posts: 374
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: E-wok

“Stupid” is an opinion-sorry you’re offended, it seems like a nice reference to me😁 , and that’s how a refer to my 3 other vintage bikes.

I agree with the Directional trail signage - all the rest sounds a bit assuming. ( many Ebikers , formally acoustic riders- or still both , have contributed and continue to donate their time and money to local trails).

Again, Once you’ve spent a decent amount of time on a Ebike , you’ll realize the only exception is for informative, directional signage - and that the etiquette is the exactly the SAME for both an E and acoustic bikes. Super simple.

A trail pass and licence for ALL bikes- yikes, I’m not touching that one!

Attitude has to do with the person on the bike- not what kinda bike they’re on.

As far as the bike companies being on board-did they do all of what you are suggesting for them to do now , as when the DH RM -7’s came out?

They made profits then, and now. Same-same.

not offended, but acoustic to describe a bicycle just sounds dumb. acoustic is a term used for sound and musical instruments - not bikes

etiquette is not exactly the same for ebikes and bikes tho, the much higher speeds, especially while climbing,dictates the need for extra care from the person riding an ebike.

re profits, i've argued the same in the past for regular bikes, the difference now is that ebikes allow for more laps hence the potential need for more maintenance.

again i'm not opposed to ebikes, but the discussion just needs to be real and the free for all attiutde that seems to follow ebike proponents is what puts a lot of people off them or hesitant of their acceptance.

All of what Syncro suggests is reasonable.

Firstly, lets drop ebike and acoustic bike. I still think bicycle and emoped is more accurate. Alternatively we can call them bikes and electric simulated cycling machines?

With regards to etiquette. The rules have always been that the person giving more effort has the right of way, generally the uphill rider. Emppeds make this confusing. I would suggest that the emoped has to give right of way and wait for safe opportunities to pass.

As for the bike companies, I am not against emopeds but I resent the marketing of emopeds as the "evolution" of the bicycle. That is the equivalent of saying that segways are the evolution of walking. Neither is true and I resent that the bike manufacturers are trying to piggy back on all the hard work that has been done by trail advocacy groups by marketing their contraptions as the "evolution" of bikes when they very well know that there is a whole host of issues that will ensue. It is a sloppy and careless approach and the emoped riders should expect to have to make up the difference between the "dream" the bike companies are selling and the reality of emopeds on bike trails.

Sept. 2, 2019, 5:28 p.m.
Posts: 666
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

It seems your “issues” are slowly being debunked as we move along as well.

The terms bike and e-bike do just fine.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on Sept. 2, 2019, 5:37 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 2, 2019, 5:33 p.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

I live in the Koots, E bikes are out here too, you just didn’t see them.

Sept. 2, 2019, 8:41 p.m.
Posts: 33276
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/02/national-park-service-expands-e-bike-use/

Sept. 2, 2019, 9:26 p.m.
Posts: 326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

Why would you say that? One of the few and probably main issue I have with ebikes is that they give people the ability to go significantly faster on flat and uphills trails where passing is most likely to occur. With a higher speed differential the potential of some sort of collision goes up. This is especially true if the person on an ebike is being impatient and is focused mostly on their ride and not giving much consideration to other trail uses. IMHO this is exactly why land managers should step forward with some set of ground rules for trail users to follow and publicize those rules on the trail with adequate signage.

Sept. 2, 2019, 10:37 p.m.
Posts: 374
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

It seems your “issues” are slowly being debunked as we move along as well.

The terms bike and e-bike do just fine.

Right of way to the uphill rider is a rule of trail etiquette that goes back decades. It is based on the fact that uphill riders are working their buts off and it is difficult to get started up again once you put a foot down whereas downhill riders can pull over and restart more easily. 

I saw a promotional video for an ebike that showed the guy climbing a downhill trail at whistler including riding up a wall ride. Who gives right of way in that situation?

Sept. 3, 2019, 12:09 a.m.
Posts: 1938
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: RAHrider

I saw a promotional video for an ebike that showed the guy climbing a downhill trail at whistler including riding up a wall ride. Who gives right of way in that situation?

Tonnage.

Sept. 3, 2019, 4:30 a.m.
Posts: 666
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

Why would you say that? One of the few and probably main issue I have with ebikes is that they give people the ability to go significantly faster on flat and uphills trails where passing is most likely to occur. With a higher speed differential the potential of some sort of collision goes up. This is especially true if the person on an ebike is being impatient and is focused mostly on their ride and not giving much consideration to other trail uses. IMHO this is exactly why land managers should step forward with some set of ground rules for trail users to follow and publicize those rules on the trail with adequate signage.

With the present rules as I’ve always understood them bikes give way to everyone else regardless of direction or effort. When it comes to other bikes uphill has right of way. Nothing to do with effort. The horse is not working any harder, the hiker, maybe but can certainly step out of the way easy enough but that’s not the rule. I think when it comes to e bikes on single track catching up to bikes they should just get in line and pass when they are welcomed to. Any other behaviour is simply bullshit.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on Sept. 3, 2019, 4:37 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 3, 2019, 4:40 a.m.
Posts: 666
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: FLATCH

I’m not sure what rules of etiquette you’re following, but trail etiquette has fuck all to do with effort.

It seems your “issues” are slowly being debunked as we move along as well.

The terms bike and e-bike do just fine.

Right of way to the uphill rider is a rule of trail etiquette that goes back decades. It is based on the fact that uphill riders are working their buts off and it is difficult to get started up again once you put a foot down whereas downhill riders can pull over and restart more easily. 

I saw a promotional video for an ebike that showed the guy climbing a downhill trail at whistler including riding up a wall ride. Who gives right of way in that situation?

Buddy shouldn’t be climbing an uphill trail, simple as that.

Sept. 3, 2019, 11:12 a.m.
Posts: 1385
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: sandy-james-oates

I live in the Koots, E bikes are out here too, you just didn’t see them.

I'm sure they are.

Went to Morning Mountain on Saturday morning (Labour day weekend) there was maybe 5 vehicles at the lot, at the bottoms up climb start. Saw a couple riders here and there on the Powerslave/Bear Den/ Placenta loop, very few considering it was the weekend. Same for Mountain Station, saw maybe 3/4 riders.  If that was the Fromme lot there is usually a lineup of cars, people waiting at the trailheads to ride. Just don't see any ebike user conflict happening there in the Koots, hardly anyone on the trails. The Shore - Howe Sound Corridor on the other hand has to get it's ducks in a row pretty quick. User conflict is going to be on the menu soon.

Sept. 3, 2019, 12:22 p.m.
Posts: 236
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

My views on the ebike thing have softened of late. The only riders I’ve seen on them in the Whistler valley so far or older guys. Guys in their 70’s by the looks of it. My one neighbour as well has post concussion syndrome that doesn’t allow him to go hard. I’m sure there are young bucks out there that use the ebikes to get in more downhill. This may change of course.

At first I was quite put off by the hard sell some people were advancing. I found it mildly insulting as I was told it was more fun as if climbing was not fun. Ebikes they said were the future of mountain bikes. Based on what I am seeing I don’t think that’s going to happen. I also think if ebike riders want a voice in trail access that they need to form their own groups and do so.

So many of the arguments both pro and con on both sides are baseless supposition.


 Last edited by: andy-eunson on Sept. 3, 2019, 3:36 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 3, 2019, 1:18 p.m.
Posts: 326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

I think when it comes to e bikes on single track catching up to bikes they should just get in line and pass when they are welcomed to. Any other behaviour is simply bullshit.

that's the whole point of what we're saying

Sept. 3, 2019, 1:27 p.m.
Posts: 17792
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Enduro!!!!

With ebikes, lol. 

https://www.endurocuplombardia.it/site/

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