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ebikes on the Shore

May 12, 2019, 10:57 a.m.
Posts: 2201
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: Ddean

You think that the battery in a Powerplay Altitude would make it up to the top of Disneyland? :)

I’m still mixed on these things but I believe that in 5-10yrs from now that even today’s biggest opponents will have one.

class 1 e-mtb are calibrated and work off of torque and cadence, which is why even if you chip it , it only will help you on the flat roads for commuting, they are not a dirt bike. If you point it straight up hill you would have to be in your smallest cog to go super fast but the bike is calibrated in a way that becasue your can't spin that gear with a high cadence the motor out put is zero. So the real way to climb disneyland and descend is by a trials bike. I ride both and the powerplay wont give you enough juice and you can't change out the battery, same with the norco, you want a e-mtb that you can switch out the battery so you can carry a spare. From home up all the gondi trails and home 40km in 1:45 in boost this morning while the whiners were sleeping, ha ha! to your second point, many of the naysayers here and whistler already have switched over to them. Those that don't, will be the guys standing in the whistler snow line up with 1992 Dynastar Red Tips saying anything fatter is cheating. :)

May 12, 2019, 11:01 a.m.
Posts: 2201
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: craw

Ask me again in a few years when the battery life and weight are improved. I think they'll become ubiquitous. People who like to suffer will just suffer further and faster.

Nope. Some people just want to do it on their own steam. It’s a sense of accomplishment you can never get with an ebike.

Those are interesting words from someone who does not ride one....I have done some pretty big climbs on pedal power, now I search out for even more and more and bigger and bigger and longer climbs and do them every day, mostly twice a day, rather than once or twice a week. A sense of accomplishment is a personal one, and not one anyone else might understand and especially until you ride one, you have no clue. But I do understand the limits in your mind, since you don't know what you don't know.


 Last edited by: norona on May 12, 2019, 11:21 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 12, 2019, 11:20 a.m.
Posts: 2201
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: Brocklanders

From their webpage.

WORCA advocates for non-motorised mountain biking. WORCA considers e-bikes motorized vehicles. E-bikes are not included at WORCA events as our insurance will not cover their use. E-bikes are still in the evolutionary stage and management plans are not yet established. Some clear issues stand out which have not fully been evaluated. The facts are that they allow more people to travel farther and quicker into places they could not so easily access before. This potentially opens up a number of concerns around user conflict, trail safety, and damage to trails that WORCA is keen to monitor and re-evaluate if necessary based on authentic studies or assessment of on-trail conditions. E-bike riders are directed to be extra considerate on public trails and be aware that faster speeds in all directions is a concern for collisions on 

All those who volly their time have enough to do. It's not the trail assns duty to integrate motorbikes into a non motorized riding area. So I guess we will see how it all pans out. I know people on a couple different trail  assns boards that have had enough of this headache and are pretty much done vollying their time. Which is a shame they have done so much, it's thankless work. But you know entitlement rules these days.

I will answer this since all you did was post a quote. WORCA's job is to promote what their user group does. One of your buddies that you talk about in your bottom statement spent the last few years writing lots of things making sure to say on non-motorized trails, however what he always failed to mention was that the area he was talking about was on crown land, in which he, worca and the RMOW have no jurisdiction over, only the government does and they class Class 1 e-mtb as mountain bikes. He is all bummed now but spent his time promoting stuff that was not even true. The areas around sproatt and across the valley were built up by trials riders, I always asked Todd on his non-motorized trails and he said it was a gray area, how does one decide trials is a grey area but e-mtb is not allowed? E-mtb allow you to go further, yes, but that is the same as a regular mtb over hiking so if your worried about trail damage then better go back to walking, truth is trails are beat now due to better and bigger enduro bikes, but all these riders would not half their riding distances to save the trail damage would they? The only reason riders don't care about more damage that is caused these days is because everyone is riding a new enduro bike. Just like when most are riding e-mtb then the damage wont matter. There is no way more damage is caused by e-mtb's out there these days compared to the majority who are on acoustic bikes. I will also add the the number one area where search and rescue were called out is on the Sproatt Alpine trails due to people riding up and being tired for the decent and making mistakes. E-mtb allows a less fit person to be more fresh for that decent which will in turn mean less crashes therefore lowering the call outs so it is the opposite of what people write on e-mtb's. About 10% of the mtb population works on trails, the rest do not, and that number is the same for every user group, it most likely will not change, so not sure what you mean by entitlement, as it is the same for every group. Most people ride, and the work is done by a few. I have done, and still do a lot of trail work in moto, trials and mtb(e-mtb)

May 12, 2019, 11:24 a.m.
Posts: 1757
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: norona

Those are interesting words from someone who does not ride one....I have done some pretty big climbs on pedal power, now I search out for even more and more and bigger and bigger and longer climbs and do them every day, mostly twice a day, rather than once or twice a week. A sense of accomplishment is a personal one, and not one anyone else might understand and especially until you ride one, you have no clue. But I do understand the limits in your mind, since if you don't know what you don't know.

It's no different than Lance or say the juicers in the gym or any other sport. Sure you may still have to do the work, but the aid, whatever it is, is allowing you to do something that you otherwise are not physically capable of. IMO the accomplishment comes from doing it on your own, with no assistance. I can see how people might feel a sense of accomplishment on a big climb with an ebike, but I don't see it the same as if you did it under your own power. 

PS - great way to be an "ambassador", I'm guessing my comments hit a nerve for you. Thankfully the limits of my mind are what keep pushing me to try longer, steeper and more technical climbs without the need for some sort of assistance device to get me there.

May 12, 2019, 11:25 a.m.
Posts: 1481
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Three walls of text later and this lifelong cyclist has completely changed his mind. FIRE UP THE COAL PLANTS AND PLUG ME IN. ⚡⚡⚡⚡ Sunday morning family trail traffic here we come! Let's go BLAST some uphill singletrack under POWER and watch hikers jump into the bushes! Triple the mileage!! Let's get some motorized noise and into those wooooods!!!

Man, what a salesman. Really earning that pittance from the e-bike sponsor this morning Norona. Hoo boy.

May 12, 2019, 2:44 p.m.
Posts: 14
Joined: Nov. 1, 2017

Posted by: norona

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: craw

Posted by: LoamtoHome

e-bikers won't form any advocacy group unless they get banned. Even then, how you going to enforce?

Until batteries get way better, I can't see people chipping their ebikes. Even in Trail mode, battery power doesn't last too long. In Boost mode, it would be really hard to navigate up some trails.

It really boils down to the rider responsibility.

Totally. For me the big sell was to self-shuttle, not just up the hill but across town. I was intrigued by the prospect of not driving to ride.

Until a bit of research revealed that most ebikes would barely get my 220lbs from home in East Van over to one North Shore mountain up down and home again on a single charge. While here I was thinking I could skip the car and ride two mountains when I'd most likely end up hauling this 50lb bike with my truck as usual.

Agreed about the 'chipped' ebikes. For the pedelecs, even though you can chip it doesn't mean you'd want to. I've ridden one, it takes a good amount of wattage to spin it up to 50km/h even on pavement and the battery won't last very long. Good to brag about, not actually very functional in practice. 

For the self-shuttling, also my 'ideal' as well. Could be a market for a certain shop to offer battery charging/battery storage services. I'd love to ride from Vancouver on one battery and a set of slicks, swap at the base of mountain highway, do a loop, swap back and roll home. Much better than dealing with traffic, probably faster depending on time of day. One can dream.

So spandy... If you didn't live so far away from the NS trails would you have bought an ebike? Or is that just a lame excuse? I mean you used to race pro right?

I've had this thing for a week - I absolutely would buy a pedelec even if I lived on the North Shore. Currently, I meet my buds who live a few km away from one of the mountains, ride to the trails, and ride back. We can do a loop in a shorter period of time with no need to load up the cars, and ride the trails with none or minimal stopping even given different fitness and skill levels. If these are lame excuses, then I guess I don't mind being lame. And no, I never raced 'pro'; my comments earlier were contextual around how I foresee myself using this bike, nothing more. 

I'm not here to have a dick waving contest about fitness, the amount of volunteering one has done, or how technically proficient one may or may not be. These pedal assist bikes are a game-changer, and as much as many of you don't like it, this trend will grab hold. It has already been mentioned multiple times that enforcement is the crux of the issue, regardless of whether or not land managers/trail organizations/the wizard of oz plans to ban e-assist bikes. So the question is, if enforcement is nonexistent and we can't do jack-all about irresponsible people, wouldn't it be a better strategy to include those in the pedelec camp as part of the conversation to both help inform policy decisions and to deter abusive behaviours? Otherwise, we collectively have no platform to proactively address the preservation and growth of our sport and our trail assets. 

Shame all you want, but I suspect those who are irresponsible will continue to not give a shit and ignore whatever pleas we may tender, regardless of bans or no bans. Do you now also want to lose the camp of responsible pedelec riders who are interested in engaging in the discussion?

Ya man, have fun, only a week, you have not even discovered the radness yet, about three weeks on it and your world will open up even more, ignore the self feeding bro's on this thread, they don't get it, never did and won't in the future. 3 weeks into riding season here and just hit 1000km, get a second battery and the loops are rad! I put 6000km on a few bikes last season levo, devinci and rocky.

Nice, I can imagine I'll expand on the adventures I can have on the thing. Still setting it up and dialing it in, I'm stoked to be able to do a giant ride on it sometime. Given your experiences with the different brands, maybe you can expand on them a bit in terms of feel and character. I got the Devinci and was debating between the three you listed, but the angles, setup, and robust build sold it for me. I was very drawn to the powerplay but felt that the constant chain idler pulley sound would drive me nuts. Also, what are you riding now?

May 12, 2019, 3:42 p.m.
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: craw

Posted by: LoamtoHome

e-bikers won't form any advocacy group unless they get banned. Even then, how you going to enforce?

Until batteries get way better, I can't see people chipping their ebikes. Even in Trail mode, battery power doesn't last too long. In Boost mode, it would be really hard to navigate up some trails.

It really boils down to the rider responsibility.

Totally. For me the big sell was to self-shuttle, not just up the hill but across town. I was intrigued by the prospect of not driving to ride.

Until a bit of research revealed that most ebikes would barely get my 220lbs from home in East Van over to one North Shore mountain up down and home again on a single charge. While here I was thinking I could skip the car and ride two mountains when I'd most likely end up hauling this 50lb bike with my truck as usual.

Agreed about the 'chipped' ebikes. For the pedelecs, even though you can chip it doesn't mean you'd want to. I've ridden one, it takes a good amount of wattage to spin it up to 50km/h even on pavement and the battery won't last very long. Good to brag about, not actually very functional in practice.

For the self-shuttling, also my 'ideal' as well. Could be a market for a certain shop to offer battery charging/battery storage services. I'd love to ride from Vancouver on one battery and a set of slicks, swap at the base of mountain highway, do a loop, swap back and roll home. Much better than dealing with traffic, probably faster depending on time of day. One can dream.

So spandy... If you didn't live so far away from the NS trails would you have bought an ebike? Or is that just a lame excuse? I mean you used to race pro right?

I've had this thing for a week - I absolutely would buy a pedelec even if I lived on the North Shore. Currently, I meet my buds who live a few km away from one of the mountains, ride to the trails, and ride back. We can do a loop in a shorter period of time with no need to load up the cars, and ride the trails with none or minimal stopping even given different fitness and skill levels. If these are lame excuses, then I guess I don't mind being lame. And no, I never raced 'pro'; my comments earlier were contextual around how I foresee myself using this bike, nothing more.

I'm not here to have a dick waving contest about fitness, the amount of volunteering one has done, or how technically proficient one may or may not be. These pedal assist bikes are a game-changer, and as much as many of you don't like it, this trend will grab hold. It has already been mentioned multiple times that enforcement is the crux of the issue, regardless of whether or not land managers/trail organizations/the wizard of oz plans to ban e-assist bikes. So the question is, if enforcement is nonexistent and we can't do jack-all about irresponsible people, wouldn't it be a better strategy to include those in the pedelec camp as part of the conversation to both help inform policy decisions and to deter abusive behaviours? Otherwise, we collectively have no platform to proactively address the preservation and growth of our sport and our trail assets.

Shame all you want, but I suspect those who are irresponsible will continue to not give a shit and ignore whatever pleas we may tender, regardless of bans or no bans. Do you now also want to lose the camp of responsible pedelec riders who are interested in engaging in the discussion?

Good questions you ask! 💡


 Last edited by: E-wok on May 12, 2019, 3:43 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 12, 2019, 5:36 p.m.
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: norona

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: craw

Ask me again in a few years when the battery life and weight are improved. I think they'll become ubiquitous. People who like to suffer will just suffer further and faster.

Nope. Some people just want to do it on their own steam. It’s a sense of accomplishment you can never get with an ebike.

Those are interesting words from someone who does not ride one....I have done some pretty big climbs on pedal power, now I search out for even more and more and bigger and bigger and longer climbs and do them every day, mostly twice a day, rather than once or twice a week. A sense of accomplishment is a personal one, and not one anyone else might understand and especially until you ride one, you have no clue. But I do understand the limits in your mind, since you don't know what you don't know.

Norona-The Truth you speak, how refreshing It is!

May 12, 2019, 7:09 p.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: norona

Those are interesting words from someone who does not ride one....I have done some pretty big climbs on pedal power, now I search out for even more and more and bigger and bigger and longer climbs and do them every day, mostly twice a day, rather than once or twice a week. A sense of accomplishment is a personal one, and not one anyone else might understand and especially until you ride one, you have no clue. But I do understand the limits in your mind, since if you don't know what you don't know.

It's no different than Lance or say the juicers in the gym or any other sport. Sure you may still have to do the work, but the aid, whatever it is, is allowing you to do something that you otherwise are not physically capable of. IMO the accomplishment comes from doing it on your own, with no assistance. I can see how people might feel a sense of accomplishment on a big climb with an ebike, but I don't see it the same as if you did it under your own power. 

PS - great way to be an "ambassador", I'm guessing my comments hit a nerve for you. Thankfully the limits of my mind are what keep pushing me to try longer, steeper and more technical climbs without the need for some sort of assistance device to get me there.

These things are embarrassing to ride I gather? Was out on a group ride Thursday eve, a guy rolled up on a emtb-moped and started giving us the rundown about why he had one and why we should get one too....funny thing is no one asked, no one really cared. Many of the riders out on the group ride work in the cycle industry but yet once again not a single electric motor amongst us, why is that? Apparently these things are the shit.

I guess we don't know what we don't know.... hilarious

May 12, 2019, 9:10 p.m.
Posts: 1256
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: Brocklanders

I guess we don't know what we don't know.... hilarious

True dat bro!

May 12, 2019, 9:21 p.m.
Posts: 1757
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: E-wok

Norona-The Truth you speak, how refreshing It is!

Not really, norona got butt hurt in his little mind that I was taking a dig at him or other ebikers when that wasn't the case. The irony of course is that he stated in his reply that accomplishment is a personal one which was my point -  the sense of accomplishment on an ebike cannot be equated to getting there under your own power.

May 12, 2019, 9:45 p.m.
Posts: 33673
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: syncro

...cannot be equated to getting there under your own power.

Takes car to store to get milk and cookies...  ;-)

I've got three acoustic bikes.   No easy I can afford to replace then with electric bikes.

May 12, 2019, 10:09 p.m.
Posts: 1757
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: switch

Takes car to store to get milk and cookies...  ;-)

I've got three acoustic bikes.   No easy I can afford to replace then with electric bikes.

Ha!

No you might not be able to replace all three, but you may only need one. I can see the appeal of getting a bigger travel ebike that may be more dh oriented and using that as your one do-it-all bike to get up the hill and down. For me tho I have no real interest in that for the most part as getting there on my own is more important than being able to get there faster.

May 13, 2019, 4:16 a.m.
Posts: 1256
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

That’s fair enough, everyone has their own priorities.

May 13, 2019, 7:11 a.m.
Posts: 2201
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: norona

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Spandies

Posted by: craw

Posted by: LoamtoHome

e-bikers won't form any advocacy group unless they get banned. Even then, how you going to enforce?

Until batteries get way better, I can't see people chipping their ebikes. Even in Trail mode, battery power doesn't last too long. In Boost mode, it would be really hard to navigate up some trails.

It really boils down to the rider responsibility.

Totally. For me the big sell was to self-shuttle, not just up the hill but across town. I was intrigued by the prospect of not driving to ride.

Until a bit of research revealed that most ebikes would barely get my 220lbs from home in East Van over to one North Shore mountain up down and home again on a single charge. While here I was thinking I could skip the car and ride two mountains when I'd most likely end up hauling this 50lb bike with my truck as usual.

Agreed about the 'chipped' ebikes. For the pedelecs, even though you can chip it doesn't mean you'd want to. I've ridden one, it takes a good amount of wattage to spin it up to 50km/h even on pavement and the battery won't last very long. Good to brag about, not actually very functional in practice. 

For the self-shuttling, also my 'ideal' as well. Could be a market for a certain shop to offer battery charging/battery storage services. I'd love to ride from Vancouver on one battery and a set of slicks, swap at the base of mountain highway, do a loop, swap back and roll home. Much better than dealing with traffic, probably faster depending on time of day. One can dream.

So spandy... If you didn't live so far away from the NS trails would you have bought an ebike? Or is that just a lame excuse? I mean you used to race pro right?

I've had this thing for a week - I absolutely would buy a pedelec even if I lived on the North Shore. Currently, I meet my buds who live a few km away from one of the mountains, ride to the trails, and ride back. We can do a loop in a shorter period of time with no need to load up the cars, and ride the trails with none or minimal stopping even given different fitness and skill levels. If these are lame excuses, then I guess I don't mind being lame. And no, I never raced 'pro'; my comments earlier were contextual around how I foresee myself using this bike, nothing more. 

I'm not here to have a dick waving contest about fitness, the amount of volunteering one has done, or how technically proficient one may or may not be. These pedal assist bikes are a game-changer, and as much as many of you don't like it, this trend will grab hold. It has already been mentioned multiple times that enforcement is the crux of the issue, regardless of whether or not land managers/trail organizations/the wizard of oz plans to ban e-assist bikes. So the question is, if enforcement is nonexistent and we can't do jack-all about irresponsible people, wouldn't it be a better strategy to include those in the pedelec camp as part of the conversation to both help inform policy decisions and to deter abusive behaviours? Otherwise, we collectively have no platform to proactively address the preservation and growth of our sport and our trail assets. 

Shame all you want, but I suspect those who are irresponsible will continue to not give a shit and ignore whatever pleas we may tender, regardless of bans or no bans. Do you now also want to lose the camp of responsible pedelec riders who are interested in engaging in the discussion?

Ya man, have fun, only a week, you have not even discovered the radness yet, about three weeks on it and your world will open up even more, ignore the self feeding bro's on this thread, they don't get it, never did and won't in the future. 3 weeks into riding season here and just hit 1000km, get a second battery and the loops are rad! I put 6000km on a few bikes last season levo, devinci and rocky.

Nice, I can imagine I'll expand on the adventures I can have on the thing. Still setting it up and dialing it in, I'm stoked to be able to do a giant ride on it sometime. Given your experiences with the different brands, maybe you can expand on them a bit in terms of feel and character. I got the Devinci and was debating between the three you listed, but the angles, setup, and robust build sold it for me. I was very drawn to the powerplay but felt that the constant chain idler pulley sound would drive me nuts. Also, what are you riding now?

I ride the Devinci. Love it! 180mm suspension, easy battery exchange, and great spec and price. Christian Begin has opened Blazing Saddle Adventures at the Locavoire Food Truck in Squamish so we have wicked deals on rentals so if someone want to see what these are about, check out blazingsaddlesadventures on insta

I love the shimano Steps due to the fact that yo see your torque curve so it is like playing a game, keeping the light down means your not leaning on the battery as much which gives you more juice. With the Rocky or Specialized without seeing how your using it, you generally will use more, or lean on the battery more. The Shimano system is a bit louder than specialized for sure but it does not bother me, it is not as loud as some guys want their freehub to be.

Couple of things I have come to know

1- get the big suspension and tires2.5-2.8

2- you don't need carbon as the weight savings is not noticeable and the cost is more

3-you want a battery that can be exchanged for epic rides(riding from home to riding area or expanding that riding area)

4- all the other stuff that we use to worry about like having xtr etc, does not really matter, I was surprised I went 5000km on the same chain and sprokets, never had a chain break, sometimes that surprised me how I shifted ha ha, and somone else is still enjoying that bike.

Just have fun and like I said you will be constantly surprised what you can do on the bike and how much fun you will have! If you have some buddies that want to rent some bike and go for a cool ride, hit me up and we will do it. cheers dave

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