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ebikes on the Shore

April 9, 2019, 10:17 a.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: tashi

Accept that things have changed, stop volunteering my time cutting and maintaining trails in official areas...

Pretty much this, have spent decades advocating, planning, maintaining and building for non-moto, believe firmly in that distinction between user types, not interested in volunteering my free time for motorized bike users.


 Last edited by: FlipFantasia on April 9, 2019, 10:23 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 9, 2019, 12:44 p.m.
Posts: 1200
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: earleb

Posted by: tashi

I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.

Not prefect but perfect is impractical.

A problem with this is that our sport was basically built on disobeying the rules. NO trails back in the day were "legal" or sanctioned for bikes. EVERYONE rode anyway. Look at all the riding on unauthorized trails today. Someone out riding the darkside on their pedal bike is going to call in the dudes riding on their ebikes? Neither of them are supposed to be there.

We're down an ugly rabbit hole here. Anyone know the motto of the Jackson Hole Airforce? Swift, Silent, and Deep. If ebikes are banned from trails there will be a lot of riders taking up that motto.

I don’t see how this is a “problem”.

We were all “rogue”, some of us wanted legitimacy so they fought for it. They got some push back from established groups, some reasonable, some not. We all got legal trails where appropriate and got locked out of other areas.

Personally, I think that in a lot of the official areas mopeds will be a problem so I’m encouraging us to see them for what they are, a new user group, and respond appropriately. If you wish to welcome them than that’s your prerogative. My efforts will be focused on mountain bike trails.  

As to your example, no, I don't expect that one rule breaker will "call in" (out?) another rule breaker.  As to the rabbit hole you refer to, there's plenty of rogue riding and building that still goes on, even though we have legal trails.  Many of us are already down that rabbit hole.  Luckily the trails there are often hard, tight and not friendly to folks with super heavy bikes, poor handling skills and weak legs.


 Last edited by: tashi on April 9, 2019, 12:52 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 10, 2019, 10:05 a.m.
Posts: 20
Joined: June 9, 2017

The moment anyone starts even trying to charge people to be on the trails is the moment the entire NSMBA board quits over liability.

This is why the Trail Pass has been replaced; eliminating the possibility that it could possibly be construed as charging for access. 

http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96337_01

And earleb, its swift. silent. deep. I'm mildly surprised no one up here has replicated the original Airforce hats with a helmet sticker, TBH.

April 10, 2019, 8:04 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: Ddean

Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?

Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.

I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.

Not prefect but perfect is impractical.

but what do you do if the social norm switches from pedal to ebike? 

40yrs ago the social norm was to only hike in the forest, not bike.

Exactly ⚡️,

I guess then all the dinosaurs go extinct and Fred Flintstone calls for all his acoustic bikes back.

April 11, 2019, 7:43 a.m.
Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: E-wok

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: Ddean

Sorry, my mistake. But my concern is that if the MTB community lobbys against ebikes and convinces the powers that be that they’re dirt bikes and those who make decisions believe that, what will we tell the powers that be is the best way to police them?

Without that answer, it’s a risky discussion to have.

I’d assume it would have to be the same as it is now: social pressure to not break the posted rules and sometimes people call the authorities.

Not prefect but perfect is impractical.

but what do you do if the social norm switches from pedal to ebike? 

40yrs ago the social norm was to only hike in the forest, not bike.

Exactly ⚡️,

I guess then all the dinosaurs go extinct and Fred Flintstone calls for all his acoustic bikes back.

Um, there are still plenty of hikers from what I can tell. It's not like bikes arrived and nobody wanted to walk anymore. Likely ebikes won't sway everyone, even if they manage to make them quiet or light. Still lots of people riding hardtails too.

April 11, 2019, 9:44 a.m.
Posts: 1112
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

This is a good read.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/do-we-really-need-e-bikes-opinion-2017.html

April 11, 2019, 10:49 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Yep, I love the fact that mountain bikes are human powered, and I also love the challenge of value-oriented mountain bike enjoyment. E-mtb will never be more appealing than conventional mtb to this rider.

April 22, 2019, 10:39 a.m.
Posts: 1325
Joined: May 23, 2006

https://reviews.mtbr.com/take-the-2019-mtbr-ebike-survey

April 22, 2019, 7:42 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: tungsten

https://reviews.mtbr.com/take-the-2019-mtbr-ebike-survey

Thanks for that!

Mtbr’s ebike forum is very informative and discourages the hate.

https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/


 Last edited by: E-wok on April 22, 2019, 8 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
April 22, 2019, 8:09 p.m.
Posts: 1112
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: E-wok

Posted by: tungsten

https://reviews.mtbr.com/take-the-2019-mtbr-ebike-survey

Thanks for that!

Mtbr ebike forum is very informative and discourages the hate.

https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/

https://unitedridersofcumberland.com/about/policies/

http://www.kcts.ca/e-Bikes

Liability issues?? Motorized vehicle?Looks like more and more areas are shutting the door. Don't know how much longer this sneak in the backdoor pretending to be a mountain bike charade is going to last for you guys, but I'm sure you can chat about it on the link you provided.

April 23, 2019, 12:48 a.m.
Posts: 933
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: Brocklanders

https://unitedridersofcumberland.com/about/policies/

http://www.kcts.ca/e-Bikes

Liability issues?? Motorized vehicle?Looks like more and more areas are shutting the door. Don't know how much longer this sneak in the backdoor pretending to be a mountain bike charade is going to last for you guys, but I'm sure you can chat about it on the link you provided.

"UROC considers them to be motorized and does not support their use on the Cumberland trail network at this time.

UROC also recognizes that the use of e-bikes on mountain bike trails is still evolving..."

This seems sensible. Ban them outright for now, if the off-road moped industry decides to get their shit together then possibly reevaluate.


 Last edited by: Hepcat on April 23, 2019, 12:49 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 23, 2019, 12:36 p.m.
Posts: 20
Joined: June 9, 2017

I'm not sure what UROC 'banned'?

"The agreement reached with the private landowners around Cumberland in 2015 specifically grants access for non-motorized, recreational use of the trails and for motorized access when necessary for events or trail work."

They advocated for non-motorized recreation, and the landowner granted access for non-motorized recreation. 

Its up to clubs to decide what they advocate for and in most cases the land manager has final say on who can do what on their land. UROC didn't actually 'ban' anything. Agreements, and often funding, are often predicated on wording like "non-motorized", especially in the US.

April 26, 2019, 3:11 p.m.
Posts: 9188
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Looks like BC Gov just stepped into the ring:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sports-culture/recreation/camping-hiking/sites-trails/program/trail-policies

April 26, 2019, 5:34 p.m.
Posts: 34281
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I like their decision.

April 26, 2019, 8:35 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec. 16, 2018

Posted by: pedalhound

Looks like BC Gov just stepped into the ring:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sports-culture/recreation/camping-hiking/sites-trails/program/trail-policies

This is E⚡️Static News!

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