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ebikes on the Shore

April 3, 2019, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 329
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Manufacturers are going to play within the rules that are set out and right now there really aren’t any so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s a bit of a free for all. You would think it would be in their interests to be more proactive, but apparently that isn’t the case.

April 3, 2019, 11:02 a.m.
Posts: 3502
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Posted by: syncro

Manufacturers are going to play within the rules that are set out and right now there really aren’t any so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s a bit of a free for all. You would think it would be in their interests to be more proactive, but apparently that isn’t the case.

Proactive = more regulation. Manufacturers don't want Ebikes to be regulated, restricted or made unattractive in any way. So they'll stay silent and hope they can keep slinging the ebikes while they are as attractive as possible.

April 3, 2019, 11:02 a.m.
Posts: 17
Joined: Aug. 16, 2018

Posted by: Henry-Chinaski

Posted by: cerealkilla_

We need a sober and evidence-based discussion of these issues, with direct participation from those that want ebikes on the trails....not just more internet speculation, squabbling, and marketing excuses....and no more of this silence from the profiteers. Until that happens, it is reasonable to expect continued reluctance to embrace ebikes within the riding community. I think we've reached a point where the majority of riders really don't care or judge what other people ride. It's more that what we have achieved as a sport in terms of trails and trails access is extremely precious, and we should be extremely cautious (and responsible) about how we integrate new technology into the mix. And no, ebikes are not like disc brakes and suspension in the 90s, not like DH bikes, not like paddle boards in the breaks, and not like snowboards on the hills. They involve the addition of energy via a motor that increases power and speed. This is a unique direction change in technology, and it deserves a thoughtful analysis.

This is super concise.  Does anyone not agree with this?  Not having this conversation while marketing the hell out of e-bikes and waiting to see if they are a fad, is a bewildering approach.

yup, great post by ceralkilla.

too bad the people pushing these things aren't going to take these points into consideration.

April 3, 2019, 11:04 a.m.
Posts: 783
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I remember Monica saying that her community was going to stay silent on the issue and let ebikes become part of MTB culture, and then at that point would they start waving their arms again. An inability to police the difference between ebikes and MTBs is their plan for grouping the two groups together. If you cant enforce a difference between ebikes versus MTBs and if ebikes are not good, all bikes get banned. That is what it looks like their future argument will be.

April 3, 2019, 11:23 a.m.
Posts: 1399
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

I had a response from the DNV. They are still waiting on what the provincial Govt plan is before they act.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/regulation-for-electric-bikes-may-forever-change-b-c-mountain-trails-1.4595145

So we wait and see, I am hoping and guessing they will follow the BLM in the States approach. Although this future policy is for crown land.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on April 3, 2019, 11:28 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 3, 2019, 12:27 p.m.
Posts: 329
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: syncro

Manufacturers are going to play within the rules that are set out and right now there really aren’t any so it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s a bit of a free for all. You would think it would be in their interests to be more proactive, but apparently that isn’t the case.

Proactive = more regulation. Manufacturers don't want Ebikes to be regulated, restricted or made unattractive in any way. So they'll stay silent and hope they can keep slinging the ebikes while they are as attractive as possible.

True, but by not being proactive they also run risk of not being able to play in the sandbox at all if emtbs are banned altogether.

April 3, 2019, 2:52 p.m.
Posts: 3502
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Posted by: syncro

True, but by not being proactive they also run risk of not being able to play in the sandbox at all if emtbs are banned altogether.

I don't think that's going to happen. I feel like General Ludd opposing these things. The deals will get done - whether back room or in front of the people, and emtbs will be here to stay. 

No one is going to pony up for policing (you can get ticketed for riding the darkside - but how often does that actually happen?), and it's not like anyone in Federal or Provincial Govt actually gives two shits about mountainbike trails. All the effort will be downloaded onto the volunteer organisations along the lines of "well if you don't like it, we can roll back everything you've won out of us so far."

April 3, 2019, 3:41 p.m.
Posts: 79
Joined: April 26, 2004

Posted by: grambo

... Some fit looking mid 40's dude on an S-Works Turbo Levo ($14,400CAD) comes flying up the last pitch of the climb, rides right through the middle of all the acoustic riders and immediately down the road toward Severed. Did not slow down, lift his head, make eye contact, or even say a friendly hello... No one even had time to say anything or react as the guy was moving too quickly. We all had a good laugh about this, was the guy afraid of being shit talked? Embarrassed? Feeling shame? ...

Over the past few years on Mtn Hwy, trails and bike paths, I have had the experience of e-bikers (e-tards) flying through groups of bikers, pedestrians, strollers dogs etc. with out slowing down, or even making the appearance of trying to slalom or stand in ready position for emergency braking.  I thought it was because the motor is activated to full throttle by very little pedal input, and there is a delay between stopping pedaling and slowing of the motorbike; whereas, for human powered bikes there is 100% feedback in human input to the speed of the bike

April 3, 2019, 4:35 p.m.
Posts: 329
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: syncro

True, but by not being proactive they also run risk of not being able to play in the sandbox at all if emtbs are banned altogether.

I don't think that's going to happen. I feel like General Ludd opposing these things. The deals will get done - whether back room or in front of the people, and emtbs will be here to stay. 

No one is going to pony up for policing (you can get ticketed for riding the darkside - but how often does that actually happen?), and it's not like anyone in Federal or Provincial Govt actually gives two shits about mountainbike trails. All the effort will be downloaded onto the volunteer organisations along the lines of "well if you don't like it, we can roll back everything you've won out of us so far."

Probably, but it's a big risk especially considering the way the issue is being considered in the states. I guess the bike co's are looking at sales from a global perspective and if a few smaller jurisdictions give them the boot they probably won't care as the hit to the bottom line won't be enough to abandon the market.  at the end of the day I think it's going to be consumer demand that determines how these things will play out.

April 3, 2019, 6:07 p.m.
Posts: 1092
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: Brocklanders

Just don't wanna lose trail access due to conflict, from electric motorbikes riding trails not built for them.

That's all

Undoubtedly someone will chime in with feigned confusion to that message, but well said Brock. It's what we're all worried about.

April 4, 2019, 8:35 a.m.
Posts: 1399
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: Ddean

I remember Monica saying that her community was going to stay silent on the issue and let ebikes become part of MTB culture, and then at that point would they start waving their arms again. An inability to police the difference between ebikes and MTBs is their plan for grouping the two groups together. If you cant enforce a difference between ebikes versus MTBs and if ebikes are not good, all bikes get banned. That is what it looks like their future argument will be.

This^^

We see issues coming, trying to address them, little conversation happening, land mangers silent, most trail associations quiet.

Bike Industry: All good bro! We can all get along right? Relax all good!

So far on what I have found just in the PNW COTA ( Bend )BLM - Cumby-  Revy-  Evergreen ( Washington)- BLM . All have said no thanks.

Our Mighty NSMBA, and SORCA are pretty much in favor of them from what I gather in the online surveys.

I guess that's what happens when you are bros with the bros bro.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on April 4, 2019, 8:48 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
April 4, 2019, 9:38 a.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: March 2, 2019

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

the fact that riders who are less fit/skilled/capable as them are able to beat them up the hill using artificial means. 

I'm just gonna shorten that sentence for you because the first half is bullshit.

April 4, 2019, 9:53 a.m.
Posts: 135
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Brocklanders

Posted by: Ddean

I remember Monica saying that her community was going to stay silent on the issue and let ebikes become part of MTB culture, and then at that point would they start waving their arms again. An inability to police the difference between ebikes and MTBs is their plan for grouping the two groups together. If you cant enforce a difference between ebikes versus MTBs and if ebikes are not good, all bikes get banned. That is what it looks like their future argument will be.

This^^

We see issues coming, trying to address them, little conversation happening, land mangers silent, most trail associations quiet.

Bike Industry: All good bro! We can all get along right? Relax all good!

So far on what I have found just in the PNW COTA ( Bend )BLM - Cumby-  Revy-  Evergreen ( Washington)- BLM . All have said no thanks.

Our Mighty NSMBA, and SORCA are pretty much in favor of them from what I gather in the online surveys.

I guess that's what happens when you are bros with the bros bro.

Bro, you ever heard of doing some like uh research Bro? 

See here they have a section on the website that clearly states their policies. 

https://nsmba.ca/policies-and-bylaws/

Ohh look a policy on ebikes. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QUQ9GCKRr0q14uA1RzmfYmbBRNaRfoQ6eUkmXrTXnA4/edit

See that very first line? 

"The NSMBA advocates for non-motorised mountain biking. The NSMBA considers Electric Mountain Bikes (“E-bikes”) a separate motorized user group."

Or you can keeping being mis-informed and spout off stuff about them being beholden to their sponsors or not wanting to piss off the Bros.

April 4, 2019, 10:19 a.m.
Posts: 783
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Its not relevant who or what they are advocating for online. The ONLY thing that matters is what their trail policy is.

Im with Brock that NSMBA does not have a stance on e-bikes or other user groups. Just wait until you start to see horses trotting up No Quarter! I don't know if District bylaws would allow horses on the Shore but as far as I can tell, if they would, they'd be considered within NSMBAs policies of broad inclusion by silence on matters of exclusion, just like ebikes. Perhaps NSMBA does not have the authority to determine which user groups can and cannot use the trails within their network? I don't know. But saying that they advocate for non-motorized bicycles does not mean anything regarding user groups on the trails. They advocate for 12 months of sunshine too.

When most people think about trail policy, theyre thinking signs saying "No motorized bicycles".


 Last edited by: Ddean on April 4, 2019, 10:21 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 4, 2019, 10:48 a.m.
Posts: 135
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

FFS I just linked to the policy, how can you say there is no stance?

FYI the trials are not "their network", the trails are on municipal, provincial, and federal land. Each of these have separate land managers. The NSMBA has entered into working agreements to allow them and volunteers to work on these trails, but let's set one thing VERY clear, these are NOT the NSMBA's trails nor network. They can ADVOCATE for what the board feels it's membership wants. 

NSMBA doesn't make ANY policy with regards to trails.

Horses are permitted on the Shore and you'll see them on the trails in Princess Park often. There are several stables around the Williams Street area under the power lines.

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