ebikes on the Shore

That looks awesome. I want one!

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic. 

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

Had an interesting encounter yesterday morning on Seymour at the powerlines resting spot after the Old Buck/BP climb (where you ride down to Severed). I was with a buddy and there were probably 10-12 other random acoustic bikers from several groups resting and happily chatting about the amazing weather and trail conditions and general other acousticy topics. Some fit looking mid 40's dude on an S-Works Turbo Levo ($14,400CAD) comes flying up the last pitch of the climb, rides right through the middle of all the acoustic riders and immediately down the road toward Severed. Did not slow down, lift his head, make eye contact, or even say a friendly hello... No one even had time to say anything or react as the guy was moving too quickly. We all had a good laugh about this, was the guy afraid of being shit talked? Embarrassed? Feeling shame? At least slow down and say hello. If people shit talk you just kill them with kindness. Shouldn't ebike owners be setting an example to other trail users that they are a friendly open group? That's what is expected of mountain bikers with hikers (and what I do every single time, even if I get silence or snark in return). This isn't the first time I've seen this with ebikers, it seriously feels like they are just using the fast climbing ability of the bike to avoid having to interact with people who might criticize them and it doesn't look good.

There was universal dislike for ebikes amongst the 3 or 4 random groups of acoustic bikers which included some older rippers appearing to be in their 50s-60s. Surprising because the ebike marketing material has told me it's not physically possible to ride in your 60's without an ebike! One of the other people in the group mentioned this ebiker had passed them 3 times so far that day in the same manner, fast and with no greeting or warning.

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: Brocklanders

It appears the Brits have a huge chubby for these things.  Which is strange due to the lack of long steep climbs on most of the island.

It's cause they're lazy bitches.

There's nothing to the UK but drinking, shopping and screwing. Consumer culture with no appreciation for anyone else.

Also - there's very little 'builder driven' trails. Trails are usually either 1: been there for centuries, 2: trail centres where someones being paid to maintain them or 3: someone builds it and abandons it.

Huh, came for an e-bike discussion, left with racial slurs. Did you get bitten by someone from the UK as a kid?

Posted by: grambo

Had an interesting encounter yesterday morning on Seymour at the powerlines resting spot after the Old Buck/BP climb (where you ride down to Severed). I was with a buddy and there were probably 10-12 other random acoustic bikers from several groups resting and happily chatting about the amazing weather and trail conditions and general other acousticy topics. Some fit looking mid 40's dude on an S-Works Turbo Levo ($14,400CAD) comes flying up the last pitch of the climb, rides right through the middle of all the acoustic riders and immediately down the road toward Severed. Did not slow down, lift his head, make eye contact, or even say a friendly hello... No one even had time to say anything or react as the guy was moving too quickly. We all had a good laugh about this, was the guy afraid of being shit talked? Embarrassed? Feeling shame? At least slow down and say hello. If people shit talk you just kill them with kindness. Shouldn't ebike owners be setting an example to other trail users that they are a friendly open group? That's what is expected of mountain bikers with hikers (and what I do every single time, even if I get silence or snark in return). This isn't the first time I've seen this with ebikers, it seriously feels like they are just using the fast climbing ability of the bike to avoid having to interact with people who might criticize them and it doesn't look good.

There was universal dislike for ebikes amongst the 3 or 4 random groups of acoustic bikers which included some older rippers appearing to be in their 50s-60s. Surprising because the ebike marketing material has told me it's not physically possible to ride in your 60's without an ebike! One of the other people in the group mentioned this ebiker had passed them 3 times so far that day in the same manner, fast and with no greeting or warning.

To be fair, I've seen regular bikers behave like that as well. Sometimes you don't feel like talking to people.

But yeah, being friendly and saying high is good PR. The same goes for mountain bikers interacting with other user groups.

It's interesting looking at Craw's link to the article on education and cerealkilla_'s comment about meaningful discussion and comparing those to what most people against ebikes are saying. Is there any thought given to the idea that the aggro none-at-all stance is actually going to be more harmful than helpful in the near future? The notion that ebikes are suddenly going to disappear from the landscape is long gone so why ins't there a more concerted effort being put into how the two different user groups will co-exist on the limited range of recreational land available to the two activities? It seems next to impossible to have any sort of meaningful discussion on what should be done when that's exactly what needs to happen, otherwise the glacial pace of government regulation will allow ebikes to potentially take over the landscape. I initially thought that ebikes may represent 1/3 of trail users, but considering human nature and the desire to do things easier and faster maybe that number could be 2/3 of trail users?

What if there was a special tax levied on all mtb's/ebikes/products that directly went to trail org's to pay for trail crews where ebikes paid a higher fee? Is that something that could/should be part of a solution? The landscape is changing frighteningly fast and it seems with the current pace of discussion and solutions on how to handle ebikes they are going to be well established and possibly the dominant player in the marketplace before any sort of meaningful solution comes along. How many of those opposed are writing to not just municipal but provincial officials as well to press the idea that some sort of action needs to happen now?

Posted by: DanL

Huh, came for an e-bike discussion, left with racial slurs. Did you get bitten by someone from the UK as a kid?

Didn’t know having shitty dental health was a racial trait. 

#britlivesmatter

^Higher fee won’t matter splinky. I buy most of my bike stuff from those Euro-trash online.

Posted by: Endur-Bro

^Higher fee won’t matter splinky. I buy most of my bike stuff from those Euro-trash online.

I was thinking more for new bikes than parts; plus it's an idea that goes way back as a method to raise funds for trail orgs. I just think it's more dangerous to have no conversation and people yelling that some sort of discussion on practical solutions that could be implemented now. I know a little while back Cooper mentioned new trail signage is coming, maybe that will include directional signage as well?

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).

I "avoided" it because shuttling is a straw man. It's a separate issue.

This primary issue being discussed in this thread is how trail access and trail user group interaction can be managed, and if mopeds should be allowed on non-motorized trails or not.

Whether or not they measurably reduce greenhouse gasses that would have been attributable to shuttling or not is a pretty secondary discussion. Even if they cleaned CO2 from the air and shot magic baby unicorn piss that heals the environment from their non existent tailpipes those factors don't automatically make the mopeds compatible with all trail systems.

If your point is that people only ride ebikes to save the environment so they don't have to shuttle and there fore have a right to trail access purely due to their good citizenship, I'd say that such a claim is disingenuous and again, not really applicable anyways. Upgrade the insulation in your home, way less meat, and compost more and ride share to work.

Probably not a popular opinion.... but I still think a large portion of the hate against e-bikes is the fact that more fit riders are butthurt by the fact that riders who are less fit/skilled/capable as them are able to beat them up the hill using artificial means. 

I don't see myself buying and e-bike anytime soon but if another ride wants to use one it doesn't really bother me as long as they act responsibly on the trails. I do think they need to be regulated though (max power/speed, etc.) so they don't evolve into lite dirt bikes.

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Sethimus

Why is using one kind of vehicle that destroys the environment to enjoy your sport considered OK but the one that could be powered with renewable energy considered bad (for whom?)

The difference is the ebike is on the trail. The truck stays in the parking lot. If people were just using ebikes to tow their non motorized bikes to the trailhead your point would be totally valid. I think that is a perfect use for an ebike actually. I am all for ebikes on pathways built for motorized traffic.

But between this and the fact that most people will still transport their mopeds to the trails via vehicle make this attempt at justification kinda irrelevant.

funny how you left out my bit about shuttling. i don't remember anyone in this forum complaining about shuttling heavy dh/freeride rigs up the mountain with pickup trucks a few years ago. yet, that kind of activity damaged the environment for good vs. only "damaging" some trails. and you still defend using gas to right your bike. so in a way you are also doing a motorsport. you just don't see it's damage (yet).

now do trail networks that aren't shuttleable

There's loads of lift access in the UK. Many places hold uplift days of some sort or another. Whether it be scheduled days at non-commercial venues that are sometimes used for races (Bringewood for example but maybe that's stopped....it's been a while....), or more commercial operations like:

https://www.cwmdown.co.uk/

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/uplift

https://www.fodmtb.com/uplift