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E-Bikes- They work!

Sept. 15, 2018, 1:35 p.m.
Posts: 962
Joined: March 18, 2017

This is what you want for e-biking.

Proper HTA unlike the KTM e-bikes.

Sept. 15, 2018, 11:51 p.m.
Posts: 328
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Still not sure why this is posted as a North Shore forum item....

Sept. 16, 2018, 6:49 a.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: luckbox

I did actually try demo'ing an e-bike this summer. An average pedal stroke and the bike is putting out maximum wattage nearly immediately, bit of a weird feeling. Start putting in a hard effort and I'm not going any faster. Certainly takes away the motivation to put any decent effort in while pedaling and that's a pretty major part of biking to me.

The fitness/challenge of climbing is a crucial part of the whole thing for me personally, so they don't 'work' in my case.

The argument that a pedal-assist e-bike is a bicycle and an e-bike with a throttle is a motorcycle seems to fall apart when you can have the bike putting out maximum wattage while you're putting out a minimal effort. I realize they have settings and I was only in the maximum boost mode (or whatever it's called), but I think that's going to be the case for most people riding these when they get out for an hour or two after work.

This is not true, an average pedal stroke will enlighten you, but it will not give you the top out put. It is based off cadence and torque, which are built into the motor. And if you are a motivated person, I am personally, then you will push harder to get more. Also riding up any easy climb like the Mtn Hwy Access Road will allow a fit person to hit the maximum, the only time it will be less motivating is to push past the 31Km/hr where the motor cuts out and you would be trying to ride a bike up the hill higher than 32km/hr. Ride a steeper climb like old buck and you will see the difference. Again you can't make a comment that is accurate unless you have tried or ridden one of these for a week. Then you will start to have an idea. My fav part of riding has always been climbing and tech steep climbing at that, now I ride up some pretty tech climbs here in Squamish and it has changed the whole way I look at riding. Your welcome to come to Squamish and ride and I will take you on some climbs, if it is not a challenge for you, I will pay for your e-bike rental.

I have also tried a throttle bike and thought I would not like it but actually it worked very well, you can just throttle up but you won't go very long, so you tend to use it like you do your pedals on a xc loop, you pedal, then your flow, you pedal then you flow. It basically takes the hit off the punchy stuff. It is not what i prefer but some like it. And again if someone chooses to pedal easy and get a boost, how does that impact you? I use the boost mode all the time cause I want to go as fast as possible. In the fasted mode the bike does less damage than an acoustic bike as it flows over stuff easier. Just to give you an idea, I ride from home and across carpenter bridge, up the powerhouse plunge and am at Somewhere over There in 21 minutes, I then ride down and then back up the Plunge and Down Hoods N the Woods and Poop Alley and Back to Highlands in 52 minutes. That is just one of my rides in the day! Its RAD!

Sept. 16, 2018, 7:04 a.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: ReductiMat

Anyways, I agree with norona.  WORCA should have no say if one of the trails they maintain is open or closed.  I should get to ride it whenever the hell I feel like it.

I think WORCA on opening and closing trails is a good thing, Iike for the case that is going on right now, it is a good idea. They do a lot for the trails in Whistler as does SORCA and other community trail organizations and they may know what the best is for the time. I have been riding up LOTS all this spring to the closure and then back down, it is allowed and designed, they just built a middle section so people can ride up Into the Mystic and Over Through to LOTS throughout the year, a great addition. I was not talking about closures, I am talking about telling people they can tell e-bikers to turn around on this trail when no one has the authority to do that with in the law, if e-bikes did more damage to a trail then i could see an approach that would allow them on specific trails only, however they do either the same or less in my opinion, if we are really worried about trail degradation then we should ban the new school of wicked enduro racers who actually rip the trail apart.

Sept. 16, 2018, 7:10 a.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: andy-eunson

Posted by: FLATCH

and really, e bikes could be responsible for a grizzly attack? C'mon what a fucking ass hat comment.

What I implied was that more people in grizzly habitat potentially leads to more conflicts. That’s a fact. I think if there are enough people though, grizzlies would move away from the area. Maybe. That is why the conservationists were upset with the lack of consultation before the Sproat network went ahead. That’s why people are against the Jumbo resort development, human incursion into grizzly habitat.

I talked to Alister McCrone about this the land manager. He said last year they saw 400 riders average some days through Into the Mystic,Over the Rocks and Lord of the Squirrels. He said what if that number doubled, due to e-bikes. First of all there is no way that ebikes are going to double the amount of new riders into the sport. What I see happening in this case is 100 of those people might switch to e-bikes in the short term and there might be 50 new riders and 50 new riders on ebikes. The sport is growing but it has hit its growth spurt. And if we are worried about numbers on a trail like this awesome alpine trail then why did we build it. Or like I stated before if we want to limit the number then make it a user pay trail, $15.00 a day or 80.00 for a seasons pass, all that money going back to WORCA to build more and maintain. The conservationists are mad at the trail because they want it for themselves, just like the so called purist mtb guys want no ebikes, people just don't like what they don't do.

Sept. 16, 2018, 7:15 a.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: luckbox

Yes, just the fastest mode as I mentioned. If you're going on a ride where battery life is not a limitation, are you turning down the power assist for the climb?

How about one of these instead? https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ca/zero-fx

I don't think Lord of the Squirrels was paid for by taxpayer money, but I believe the climb (Into the Mystic) was. Could be wrong. Guessing that an alpine trail requires a lengthy approval process that could have failed at the mention of e-bikes. WORCA seems to act in the best interests of mountain bikers (acoustic?) and you probably won't be thrown in jail for ignoring a closure. Or doing plenty of other things that could jeopardize acoustic bike access/future trail building. Maybe WORCA needs to budget for some RATM edits and 'influencer' sponsorships next year. AGM is in 5 days if somebody wants to make that happen.

Had a zero, not the same at all, I get if you don't or can't ride moto, trials etc, you dont get this. And yes money came from the RMOW which is tax based as well as WORCA put money and all the time. The line about insurance that is used in the Kootney Trails and Here would matter if ebikes were considered motorized by the government. But they are not yet labelled. I am not suggesting ever ignoring a closure.

Sept. 16, 2018, 8:32 a.m.
Posts: 97
Joined: March 1, 2017

I just want to ride my All Terrain 'Acoustic' Dandy Horse. Acoustic LOL.....

Sept. 16, 2018, 9:25 a.m.
Posts: 807
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Too funny

Norona says that if you haven’t ridden an ebike that you can’t comment because you don’t know. 

Then when people who have ridden them outline their experience, he says they’re wrong. 

Then Norona comes out with his own theories that ebikes cause no more wear, likely less, than regular bikes and with some amazing hypothetical numbers as to how many “riders” might be on Sproatt due to ebikes versus no ebikes.

Sept. 16, 2018, 11:46 a.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: Ddean

Too funny

Norona says that if you haven’t ridden an ebike that you can’t comment because you don’t know. 

Then when people who have ridden them outline their experience, he says they’re wrong. 

Then Norona comes out with his own theories that ebikes cause no more wear, likely less, than regular bikes and with some amazing hypothetical numbers as to how many “riders” might be on Sproatt due to ebikes versus no ebikes.

I am funny!

You can comment but your not commenting on facts, but on opinion and ego

Again if you ride one in a parking lot, does that mean you know how it would work? Would you not agree that the latest bike you rode got better, felt better and performed better the more time you spent on it in the first 7 days to a month?

Prove to me that they create more damage, when you have never ridden one. How they do it, and prove they do, it is easy, right? Facts Right, Studies? I don't have facts or studies but only real life facts, I dont care about trail damage unless it is vindictive and unnecessary, because in real life all riders slide, skid, and damage the trails, fast riders, slow riders, light riders and heavy riders all do damage, then they are rebuilt, repaired and changed. 

I definitely don't know how many riders will increase due to e-bikes, my guess is a lot, what I meant from my statement is that if there are 20,000 mountain bike riders in the province, there is not instantly going to be 20,000 new riders because of e-bikes, because many of the ebike riders will come out of the mountain biking pool that exists, and any new riders that start riding now, not everyone of them will bike an e-bike. So the numbers on Into the Mystic will not double, remember I would say the majority of riders on e-bikes now in the province were already mountain bikers, I dont personally know anyone who just started the sport and bought and e-bike although that will happen for sure.

Sept. 16, 2018, 12:54 p.m.
Posts: 34
Joined: May 17, 2013

How long do we have until acoustic bikes are obsolete? (as you stated in the first post) Do you have sales information for BC? I really feel like it's not working out like they've planned around here.

E-bikes have their place somewhere for some people, but telling a group of mountain bikers that they all need motors will certainly spark some online controversy. I can come up with situations where I'd like to buy one, but none where the acoustics are obsolete.

After some research, it looks like the bike I rode was only 250W and 25km/h maximum, which would explain for a lot of my experience. Seems like a slippery slope searching for more and more power/top speed on multi-use single track trails.

I was told that I needed to ride one before making any criticism. I did ride one. Now I have to rent one for a week? I liked all of the bikes (mountain, road, dirt, sport, and supermoto) that I've owned on my first ride.

Sept. 16, 2018, 1:19 p.m.
Posts: 11416
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: norona

Posted by: Ddean

Too funny

Norona says that if you haven’t ridden an ebike that you can’t comment because you don’t know. 

Then when people who have ridden them outline their experience, he says they’re wrong. 

Then Norona comes out with his own theories that ebikes cause no more wear, likely less, than regular bikes and with some amazing hypothetical numbers as to how many “riders” might be on Sproatt due to ebikes versus no ebikes.

I am funny!

You can comment but your not commenting on facts, but on opinion and ego

Again if you ride one in a parking lot, does that mean you know how it would work? Would you not agree that the latest bike you rode got better, felt better and performed better the more time you spent on it in the first 7 days to a month?

Prove to me that they create more damage, when you have never ridden one. How they do it, and prove they do, it is easy, right? Facts Right, Studies? I don't have facts or studies but only real life facts, I dont care about trail damage unless it is vindictive and unnecessary, because in real life all riders slide, skid, and damage the trails, fast riders, slow riders, light riders and heavy riders all do damage, then they are rebuilt, repaired and changed. 

I definitely don't know how many riders will increase due to e-bikes, my guess is a lot, what I meant from my statement is that if there are 20,000 mountain bike riders in the province, there is not instantly going to be 20,000 new riders because of e-bikes, because many of the ebike riders will come out of the mountain biking pool that exists, and any new riders that start riding now, not everyone of them will bike an e-bike. So the numbers on Into the Mystic will not double, remember I would say the majority of riders on e-bikes now in the province were already mountain bikers, I dont personally know anyone who just started the sport and bought and e-bike although that will happen for sure.

You are saying that if everyone went from normal bikes to e-bikes, the number of laps done will stay the same.

Sept. 16, 2018, 1:54 p.m.
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sept. 30, 2006

Posted by: ReductiMat

Posted by: norona

Posted by: Ddean

Too funny

Norona says that if you haven’t ridden an ebike that you can’t comment because you don’t know. 

Then when people who have ridden them outline their experience, he says they’re wrong. 

Then Norona comes out with his own theories that ebikes cause no more wear, likely less, than regular bikes and with some amazing hypothetical numbers as to how many “riders” might be on Sproatt due to ebikes versus no ebikes.

I am funny!

You can comment but your not commenting on facts, but on opinion and ego

Again if you ride one in a parking lot, does that mean you know how it would work? Would you not agree that the latest bike you rode got better, felt better and performed better the more time you spent on it in the first 7 days to a month?

Prove to me that they create more damage, when you have never ridden one. How they do it, and prove they do, it is easy, right? Facts Right, Studies? I don't have facts or studies but only real life facts, I dont care about trail damage unless it is vindictive and unnecessary, because in real life all riders slide, skid, and damage the trails, fast riders, slow riders, light riders and heavy riders all do damage, then they are rebuilt, repaired and changed. 

I definitely don't know how many riders will increase due to e-bikes, my guess is a lot, what I meant from my statement is that if there are 20,000 mountain bike riders in the province, there is not instantly going to be 20,000 new riders because of e-bikes, because many of the ebike riders will come out of the mountain biking pool that exists, and any new riders that start riding now, not everyone of them will bike an e-bike. So the numbers on Into the Mystic will not double, remember I would say the majority of riders on e-bikes now in the province were already mountain bikers, I dont personally know anyone who just started the sport and bought and e-bike although that will happen for sure.

You are saying that if everyone went from normal bikes to e-bikes, the number of laps done will stay the same.

Prime example of how many more laps people would be able to do on e-bikes is given in his description.  52 mins for that (double) loop??  WTF.

Sept. 16, 2018, 2:52 p.m.
Posts: 807
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I think that if I cleared a road and offered a pay per ride shuttle service up to the top of Sproatt, that two things would happen:

I’d make a lot of dough, and

LOTS would be overrun with people who’d love to ride it over and over but don’t want or can’t climb it, ever.

Same idea for ebikes. It’s not the same penetration rate applied to a larger population of users, it’s a higher penetration rate applied to a bigger population. Exponential growth of users applies to where ebikes “unlock” the ability to access the trail.


 Last edited by: Ddean on Sept. 16, 2018, 2:53 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 16, 2018, 4:06 p.m.
Posts: 214
Joined: March 6, 2017

I just spent a weekend on the SSC with a sizeable group. 2 guys had Devinci E-bike and honestly I forgot a few times during our rides. We all rode our own pace on the climbs and waited at junctions etc. These guys are older and just don't have the fitness of the younger guys so it was nice for them to keep up. 

What I realized is these bikes have a long battery life if they aren't used on max assist. This is due to the large battery which does take away from having a lighter more lively bike but can do multiple laps. Now if these bikes came with smaller batteries that only lasted an hour or 2 I could see the market for them being way larger. The reason is that a majority of E-bike riders will be older or have injuries like old knee surgeries etc. Anyway these people just want to get out for an hour for some fresh air before their arthritis flares up or whatever. Anyone that wants to do multiple laps of Seymour is going to be fit and will probably want to stay that way ie. Still want to push themselves etc. So these people won't buy an E-bike anyway.

Sept. 16, 2018, 4:33 p.m.
Posts: 97
Joined: March 1, 2017

Posted by: T-mack

Now if these bikes came with smaller batteries that only lasted an hour or 2 I could see the market for them being way larger. 

I've always thought the same. But as always in life, stuff gets marketed due to 'features', power, turbo(!), etc rather than actually looking at who wants to ride them (generally not Norona type people). If the bike weighed under 40lb and could get an unfit rider up high at a similar speed to a healthy rider then there probably wouldn't be so much resistance to them. Instead we have all this Turbo crap and bikes that weigh as much as a Banshee Scream with a Monster T. Progress eh!

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