New posts

E-Bikes- They work!

Sept. 17, 2018, 3:07 p.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

Posted by: earleb

Any claims of "only 250w" is hogwash. 

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/all-2019-haibike-flyon-models-with-tq-motor-at-a-glance/

630w with 120nm of torque. The motor in this can be had with the same "250w" claim on it, yet still rated to 120nm of torque, or with a claim of 920w.

So now loop back to that top link...claimed outputs are kinda meaningless and all motors put out more than the claim. The "speed limited" is all software. 

Go have a good about de-restricting the e-bikes. Options available for most all models. Now Dave is going to chime in saying "that's breaking the law", yep breaking the law. Why isn't this an issue when someone want to put a turbo on their mountain sled? Or pipes on their woods moto? Well it's because these are understood to be motorized and you can do whatever you want to make that motor more powerful. The ONLY reason laws exist on an electric bicycle is a stop gap to attempt to allow them to play nice with human power bicycles and integrate with human powered bicycles. 

It's motorized and thus should be treated separate from non-motorized bicycles. Once we're all in agreement here then we can look at what trail networks should or shouldn't allow this new class of electric motorized bicycle.

Do more research 630 w is the watt hr of the battery, bikes are sitting now at 500 watt hrs meaning at 250 watts you will go 2 hrs on the flat at ful power, that new hiabike is at 630 watt hrs giving u more range not power, as is what I stated earlier. You can already buy a back up water bottle battery and add it that is another 500 watt hours giving u 1000 watt hours on the battery, this doe not give u more power but more range. This is where I are getting confused. 

In the alps the most guarded mountain range in the world that see the most usership ebikes have taken off and is where the pedltec has been created. 

For this first time this season ebikes mountain bike sales have surpassed legacy bike sales, and ebikes of all kinds now make up over 70% of sales there. 

Sorry , don t hate the messenger, they are coming! And when you are currently usIng legalities, I would like to ask you, have you ever ridden an illegally built trail, do you currently ride and illegally built trail, and have you ever ridden in garibaldi, manning park or other areas that say no to bikes. I doubt anyone on this forum who rides a lot or for a long time can say no to the above, and many others don’t even know if they have since they really don’t know, don’t ask or care.

Sept. 17, 2018, 3:56 p.m.
Posts: 142
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Psted by: norona

Do more research 630 w is the watt hr of the battery, bikes are sitting now at 500 watt hrs meaning at 250 watts you will go 2 hrs on the flat at ful power, that new hiabike is at 630 watt hrs giving u more range not power, as is what I stated earlier. You can already buy a back up water bottle battery and add it that is another 500 watt hours giving u 1000 watt hours on the battery, this doe not give u more power but more range. This is where I are getting confused. 

In the alps the most guarded mountain range in the world that see the most usership ebikes have taken off and is where the pedltec has been created. 

For this first time this season ebikes mountain bike sales have surpassed legacy bike sales, and ebikes of all kinds now make up over 70% of sales there. 

Sorry , don t hate the messenger, they are coming! And when you are currently usIng legalities, I would like to ask you, have you ever ridden an illegally built trail, do you currently ride and illegally built trail, and have you ever ridden in garibaldi, manning park or other areas that say no to bikes. I doubt anyone on this forum who rides a lot or for a long time can say no to the above, and many others don’t even know if they have since they really don’t know, don’t ask or care.

My bad, Haibike didn't even bother to release any Rated Power W numbers in the initial press on that bike. The reason it initially caught my eye was that stunning 120 Nm of torque and I mistakenly quoted the wh of the battery. 

https://www.tq-e-mobility.com/en/TQ-HPR-120S/Technical-Specifications

Looking at the specs of the available MOTOR units from TQ it looks like no matter what claimed W they put on the Rated Power your still getting that 120 Nm. 

Having ridden or not ridden illegal trails has no bearing on the subject. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

For the record, I am not against e-bikes. I want to see them regulated as their own category and permitted or not permitted on different trail networks on a case by case basis. Fromme and Seymour are not the best spots for them in my opinion as they are too connected to an urban environment. There is too much grey between a 250w rated pedelec and a 1600w throttle bike that trying to regulate them on these urban interface type trail networks would be impossible.

Sept. 17, 2018, 4:23 p.m.
Posts: 2199
Joined: Feb. 4, 2007

For those who think these bikes can't descend, well just look at what Remy, Wade and Yoann are doing. Remember the only limit on your current ride, these e-bikes or any other piece of sporting gear is YOU!

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/nv7fww.png[/IMG]


 Last edited by: norona on Sept. 17, 2018, 4:25 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 17, 2018, 4:29 p.m.
Posts: 1573
Joined: July 11, 2014

Posted by: andy-eunson

So once we all have ebikes, then what? Mark my words, more powerful motors are coming. Not just more range but faster too.

This. Slippery slope in an area that is really based on the honour system (we going to have land managers inspecting bikes at trail heads? Nope).

Motorized vs. non-motorized. Simple and easy to understand. Looking forward to the Rec BC policy.

Sept. 17, 2018, 4:49 p.m.
Posts: 1563
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: norona

For those who think these bikes can't descend, well just look at what Remy, Wade and Yoann are doing. Remember the only limit on your current ride, these e-bikes or any other piece of sporting gear is YOU!

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/nv7fww.png[/IMG]

Cool check this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLUkgRAy_Vo

Keep on flogging it guys. Gotta keep the sponsors happy.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 17, 2018, 4:51 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 17, 2018, 7:17 p.m.
Posts: 98
Joined: March 1, 2017

LOL Brocklanders.

Some weird comparisons going on here. I've ridden in the Alps, and I'd probably want an E-bike in my 'quiver' there too. IME there wasn't really such a thing as a 'quick' lap there. I also don't think those mountains are any more guarded than any other. We drove up in vans, rode up, got on a chair lift....no shortage of options so I can't see an E-bike making much difference.

But E-biking up to Half Nelson / Expresso etc becoming the norm? Really? I despair (even more....) for the Human Race if that ends up being true. 

"Remember the only limit on your current ride, these e-bikes or any other piece of sporting gear is YOU!" - so we are going to see an E-bike taking top spot at Crankworx slopestyle next year then? After all, you can do anything on any bike just like Wade Simmons? I might have to watch that Coastal Crew video again for a laugh, where they are trying to get 'sick air' on Specialized mopeds. Fair enough it was pretty impressive in a way, but nothing like what they can do on proper bikes.

Sept. 17, 2018, 9:45 p.m.
Posts: 524
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: norona

For those who think these bikes can't descend, well just look at what Remy, Wade and Yoann are doing. Remember the only limit on your current ride, these e-bikes or any other piece of sporting gear is YOU!

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/nv7fww.png[/IMG]

You have written A LOT of stupid shit on this post, but this has to be the dumbest. Because Wade Simmons is able to ride an E-moped down a line when provided a pile of cash as an incentive, we should all disregard the shit ride characteristics of your product and buy new electricity infused bicycle abominations? These riders made their living riding real bikes but when a bike company pays them they should sell a completely different product, they get on board and start hawking this shit like it's going out of style? This is not the example to follow. When trail access has been worked out, then I will respect these former bicycle riders for selling a product like this. To push these E-mopeds as the future of cycling despite all the issues that are sure to arise is irresponsible.

If you are such a passionate E-moped advocate, please enlighten us as to how you have worked to ensure trail access and trail integrity is not ruined by the assured increased wear of these devices. Please do not insult us by saying that they are less wear and tear because you go so much faster. Faster into a corner means more wear on the trail. More power applied to loose uphills means more rutting. More laps means more wear. So please tell us all the work you have done with trail associations and community councils to expand the trail networks to accommodate all the increased use and wear.

What's that? You haven't done shit in this regard? You are just cashing in on a new fad? Your integrity and moral compass do not provide you with any bearing when it comes to values such as community and fairness? Oh, I see, you just want to ride as many laps as you can before heading to the E-moped store for your day of labour no matter what the toll on the trail network.

Please keep posting - you are really doing a great job on this board helping the E-moped be seen in a positive light (read with an exceedingly sarcastic tone). If I show your employers this thread will it get you fired? Would that put an end to this? Lets hope so.

Sept. 17, 2018, 9:57 p.m.
Posts: 11472
Joined: June 4, 2008

He hasn’t done us the decency of a full-disclosure of who’s paying him, so he’s got the fact he’s not paint-eating dumb going for him.

Sept. 18, 2018, 7:30 a.m.
Posts: 819
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I’ll say that the massive effort to get respected riders on ebikes on social media is unbecoming of the riders. Seems the strategy is get these guys in them as much as possible and make the kids think it’s cool to ride ebikes. But they don’t think it is. They’re starting to make fun of their former hero’s 

Behind the scenes these guys will tell you that they have no choice if they want to keep their sponsorship. It can’t be easy making any money riding bikes. These companies have these guys by the balls.

Sept. 18, 2018, 7:42 a.m.
Posts: 1563
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: norona

For those who think these bikes can't descend, well just look at what Remy, Wade and Yoann are doing. Remember the only limit on your current ride, these e-bikes or any other piece of sporting gear is YOU!

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/nv7fww.png[/IMG]

You have written A LOT of stupid shit on this post, but this has to be the dumbest. Because Wade Simmons is able to ride an E-moped down a line when provided a pile of cash as an incentive, we should all disregard the shit ride characteristics of your product and buy new electricity infused bicycle abominations? These riders made their living riding real bikes but when a bike company pays them they should sell a completely different product, they get on board and start hawking this shit like it's going out of style? This is not the example to follow. When trail access has been worked out, then I will respect these former bicycle riders for selling a product like this. To push these E-mopeds as the future of cycling despite all the issues that are sure to arise is irresponsible.

If you are such a passionate E-moped advocate, please enlighten us as to how you have worked to ensure trail access and trail integrity is not ruined by the assured increased wear of these devices. Please do not insult us by saying that they are less wear and tear because you go so much faster. Faster into a corner means more wear on the trail. More power applied to loose uphills means more rutting. More laps means more wear. So please tell us all the work you have done with trail associations and community councils to expand the trail networks to accommodate all the increased use and wear.

What's that? You haven't done shit in this regard? You are just cashing in on a new fad? Your integrity and moral compass do not provide you with any bearing when it comes to values such as community and fairness? Oh, I see, you just want to ride as many laps as you can before heading to the E-moped store for your day of labour no matter what the toll on the trail network.

Please keep posting - you are really doing a great job on this board helping the E-moped be seen in a positive light (read with an exceedingly sarcastic tone). If I show your employers this thread will it get you fired? Would that put an end to this? Lets hope so.

^This hits it on the head^. The funny thing is that the E-moped enthusiasts that I have had convo with over the last while, face to face always bust out. ....A) What's going on in Europe.   B) Old 40 something ex pros are riding them so we should be too.

Really? that's the propaganda platform?


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Sept. 18, 2018, 9:22 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Sept. 18, 2018, 10:26 a.m.
Posts: 997
Joined: March 18, 2017

Lavender pink has two e-moped ads up today.

Sept. 18, 2018, 12:29 p.m.
Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 13, 2003

wow Norona must have a history here since he sure has taken a lot of abuse over this. Lets keep this forum a free market of opinion with constructive debate.

whats interesting is a little bit of trail usage history in towns like squamish. the trail networks were built by trials moto riders before MTB was a thing. whats ironic and counter intuitive is that these 300cc machines do less damage to the trails than skinny, skidding MTB tires. a 4" tire at 3PSI helps. and it was an issue and concern when MTB guys starting coming in using the trails. over time, people have learned to get alone and dual usage the norm.

where i live, the trials guys do all the maintenance, and the MTB guys none. being scared of these little pedal-electrics seems way blown out of proportion from a community that is still warm from the wheel size debate.

a trials motorbike:

https://gasgas.com/uploads/_CGSmartImage/img-b7ae6510b08eaaf5ea51e53c0e3a48c5-GP_1.jpg


 Last edited by: klankilla on Sept. 18, 2018, 12:31 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
Sept. 18, 2018, 1:12 p.m.
Posts: 2452
Joined: Jan. 8, 2004

klankilla, you're right a lot of trails in Squamish and Whistler were built by moto trials guys. However moto trials bikes are definitely not easier on the trails. There is an order of magnitude fewer riders, and all the purely moto trials trails I know in the Sea to Sky are in far worse shape that any of the comparable age mountain bike trails.

Sept. 18, 2018, 2:10 p.m.
Posts: 1573
Joined: July 11, 2014

Posted by: Endur-Bro

Lavender pink has two e-moped ads up today.

Yep, interesting timing with the new Specialized Stumpjumper e-moped release and Remy/Yoann/Bernard Kerr pimping ebikes on social media. PB ran a bunch of ebike content last year and there was a massive outcry so they started geo-filtering it to only show to IP's outside North America. Seems like they are testing the waters again...

Sept. 18, 2018, 2:54 p.m.
Posts: 332
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: klankilla

whats interesting is a little bit of trail usage history in towns like squamish. the trail networks were built by trials moto riders before MTB was a thing. whats ironic and counter intuitive is that these 300cc machines do less damage to the trails than skinny, skidding MTB tires. a 4" tire at 3PSI helps. and it was an issue and concern when MTB guys starting coming in using the trails. over time, people have learned to get alone and dual usage the norm.

where i live, the trials guys do all the maintenance, and the MTB guys none. being scared of these little pedal-electrics seems way blown out of proportion from a community that is still warm from the wheel size debate.

a trials motorbike:

https://gasgas.com/uploads/_CGSmartImage/img-b7ae6510b08eaaf5ea51e53c0e3a48c5-GP_1.jpg

Since this is posted in the North Shore Forum, I should point out the big difference with the trails on the North Shore. 

While there was some (illegal) moto up/down the gravel part of Mountain Highway, and the lower gravel quarry at Cypress, the trails are all about human power.

The trails here started as hiking trails....then mountain bikes started exploring old logging roads, then we developed our own trails. There was no coordination with motorised vehicles. It should be pointed out, that the trails are not just used by us riders...there are trail runners, hikers, power walkers, dog walkers, and a variety of other non-assisted trail users. For the most part (99%) we have had a good relationship with multiple user groups on the existing trails, but it is a considered balance. While everyone is thinking of e-bikes on Mountain Highway and  Expresso, don't forget that they have to get out. I suspect the Baden Powell would be the popular choice.

It's a fact that all outdoor activities are growing by leaps and bounds in the Lower Mainland (look at the steps the DNV has taken to control crowds at Quarry Rock). My fear is that e-assist drags human powered (acoustic...whatever....) cycling into a conflict that is not so easily discerned by the general public. Grouping motorised rides (assisted rides...whatever you want to call them) into the mountain bike genre only serves the manufacturers. 

(the only comment I will make to address the "fitness benefits" of the original post is that I get the same effect from putting a treadmill in the bed of my pick-up truck when my buddy drives me up 9 Mile Hill....whatever)

Forum jump: