E-bike rangers patrolling Seymour

I didn't say it was as easy as scratching in the average fall line skidder. It would be a boat load more work to build a sustainable trail that recreates the "experience" of the DarkSide. But until someone cracks that nut expect the status quo to continue.  

Off the top of my head I'd say Full Pull does a good job of mixing steep with sustainability. It certainly wasn't a quick project, LOTS of scouting, and several seasons of building by experienced builders. Could it handle full Seymour shuttle traffic?

Full Pull is awesome. Wonder if traffic will increase with ebikes especially as they graded a bunch of the access road so it's a lot more rideable now. Your point stands though.

Posted by: LoamtoHome

sustained steeps just creates troughs....  unless you are on granite rocks.

Yes they can, but like you said earlier it depends on the trail alignment. There are a lot of variables to take into account and lots of thing one can do as a builder to mitigate potential trail damage, but the one thing you can't account for is rider behaviour. At the end of the day unless you're talking about a relatively low pitch trail that sees little traffic a "loamer" or duff line is not going to be sustainable or last.

Posted by: earleb

I didn't say it was as easy as scratching in the average fall line skidder. It would be a boat load more work to build a sustainable trail that recreates the "experience" of the DarkSide. But until someone cracks that nut expect the status quo to continue.

Off the top of my head I'd say Full Pull does a good job of mixing steep with sustainability. It certainly wasn't a quick project, LOTS of scouting, and several seasons of building by experienced builders. Could it handle full Seymour shuttle traffic?

I've been riding FP a fair bit since the spring; most sections are good but there are a few steep pitches that are blown out and a couple corners others that could use some love or a rethink but for the most part it's holding up well most likely because it doesn't see a lot of traffic. I don't think you can build steep, sustainable duff lines simply due to the forces on the trail bed and way too many people are happy to lock up the rear or cutty/power-slide through a corner. I think for sure you can build a sustainable dark side type trail, but it's not going to be duff, it's going to be dirt, rock and wood.

Edit: Could it handle Seymour shuttle traffic? No way.

Posted by: grambo

Full Pull is awesome. Wonder if traffic will increase with ebikes especially as they graded a bunch of the access road so it's a lot more rideable now. Your point stands though.

Maybe the builders could ask that it be removed from Trailforks. I would hate to see that trail overrun. Its difficulty of access is part of the charm. Heavy bikes churning up that trail in record numbers, especially the steep softer sections would be very bad.

I’ve been flagging a lot of unofficial trails for removal recently, partly for this reason. Where I am we’re getting enough heat right now without the hikers and authorities conflating us with motorbikes.

Bikes don't create ruts....brakes do. Lay off the brakes. ...you're welcome.

Posted by: earleb

I didn't say it was as easy as scratching in the average fall line skidder. It would be a boat load more work to build a sustainable trail that recreates the "experience" of the DarkSide. But until someone cracks that nut expect the status quo to continue.

Off the top of my head I'd say Full Pull does a good job of mixing steep with sustainability. It certainly wasn't a quick project, LOTS of scouting, and several seasons of building by experienced builders. Could it handle full Seymour shuttle traffic?

Blackcomb trails are steep, gnarly and have had EWS races on them but somehow they last. Some of DS trails have been around for over 15 and 20 years with lots of traffic and are in good shape. Land Managers here just want to build golden dirt trails.... why the rogue building continues.

Has anyone actually run into the E-rangers while riding unsanctioned trails?

Posted by: JLW124

Has anyone actually run into the E-rangers while riding unsanctioned trails?

yes and friends of mine have tickets as well.

Probably a dumb question, and I've only ridden the lower DS stuff, but why doesn't BC parks just decommission the trails if they have such a problem with it. I assume they've tried and people just scratch in new lines.

Posted by: grambo

Probably a dumb question, and I've only ridden the lower DS stuff, but why doesn't BC parks just decommission the trails if they have such a problem with it. I assume they've tried and people just scratch in new lines.

it's tough to decommission a line that has no stunts on it or isn't all that built up as you'd have to drop way to many trees across the trail to effectively shut it down. like you said, it's pretty easy to just put in new routes.