DNV Surveyor On Natural High

If mountain bikers would have been polite visitors the parking ban wouldn't have been implemented. We were our own worst enemies in that situation.

has relocating the parking congestion to coleman alleviated this issue, though? as a wake up call to those ill-behaved individuals, perhaps. if public parking was limited further up the hill, rather than completely restricted, we might not have a need for (potential) development above the gate. granted, this is all very speculative.

dissappointing

Seems like the NSMBA is pushing for a parking lot up there lets destroy the forest and some trails so people don't have to walk 10 minutes =/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/

http://www.northshoreoutlook.com/news/232927831.html

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NSMBA asks DNV for more parking and heated change room, perhaps
13
by Maria Spitale-Leisk - North Shore Outlook
posted Nov 21, 2013 at 4:00 PM— updated Nov 26, 2013 at 8:48 PM
The North Shore Mountain Biking Association asked North Vancouver district council on Monday night to ease parking restrictions at the base of Mount Fromme and perhaps throw in a heated change room.

NSMBA program manager Mark Wood said one of the challenges facing the local mountain biking community in recent years is limited parking and access to Fromme.

In 2003, council approved residents-only parking above Coleman Street to curtail traffic congestion in the area.

“Today, there has been over a decade of prohibition creating a state in which there is private access to what is a public resource,” Wood told council.

He said the solution is to bring in staging and parking facilities along with corresponding trail access in the upper Mountain Highway area.

“We look forward in 2014 to working with council and staff to come to a solution, whatever that may be,” said Wood.

NSMBA president Mathew Bond said the current parking restrictions discourage novice riders because of the added uphill commute to the trails. It’s approximately a 10-minute walk up Mountain Highway from Coleman Street to the base of Bobsled, a beginner trail.

If mountain bikers would have been polite visitors the parking ban wouldn't have been implemented. We were our own worst enemies in that situation.

Exactly,
now we lose forest , and maybe a trail to have a parking lot. Mainly because of the actions of a few.

dissappointing

Seems like the NSMBA is pushing for a parking lot up there lets destroy the forest and some trails so people don't have to walk 10 minutes =/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/

http://www.northshoreoutlook.com/news/232927831.html

Connect with Us
NEWS
NSMBA asks DNV for more parking and heated change room, perhaps
13
by Maria Spitale-Leisk - North Shore Outlook
posted Nov 21, 2013 at 4:00 PM— updated Nov 26, 2013 at 8:48 PM
The North Shore Mountain Biking Association asked North Vancouver district council on Monday night to ease parking restrictions at the base of Mount Fromme and perhaps throw in a heated change room.

NSMBA program manager Mark Wood said one of the challenges facing the local mountain biking community in recent years is limited parking and access to Fromme.

In 2003, council approved residents-only parking above Coleman Street to curtail traffic congestion in the area.

“Today, there has been over a decade of prohibition creating a state in which there is private access to what is a public resource,” Wood told council.

He said the solution is to bring in staging and parking facilities along with corresponding trail access in the upper Mountain Highway area.

“We look forward in 2014 to working with council and staff to come to a solution, whatever that may be,” said Wood.

NSMBA president Mathew Bond said the current parking restrictions discourage novice riders because of the added uphill commute to the trails. It’s approximately a 10-minute walk up Mountain Highway from Coleman Street to the base of Bobsled, a beginner trail.

ha!

figured this wouldn't take long until the "debate" of having to walk or pedal a few extra minutes to access the trails came up.

but this line: "a decade of prohibition creating a state in which there is private access to what is a public resource" is going a bit far. the public road stretches all the way up the hill, people just need to put in few minutes extra of effort. if it's such a burden there are other riding areas that are more readily accessible.

imo it makes more sense to put effort into putting parking on the hydro ROW off of braemar and cutting in a new climbing trail from there.

I'm all for keeping the RPO…. if the district puts one up on a 10 block radius around all public soccer fields, parks and schools. Otherwise, scrap the RPO around forest access and the plans for a parking lot at the same time.

IMHO.

I'm all for keeping the RPO…. if the district puts one up on a 10 block radius around all public soccer fields, parks and schools. Otherwise, scrap the RPO around forest access and the plans for a parking lot at the same time.

IMHO.

that seems to make sense but most fields/parks/schools typically have off street parking or at the very least a decent amount of adjacent on street parking. such is not the case with the access to fromme where it's all residential.

with the increase in ridership since the RPO first went in i can guarantee if that ban was lifted that the people at the top of mt hwy and particularly along mcnair would be inundated with people parking their cars simply for easier trail access. if i lived in that neighborhood i would not be happy with having my street turned into a parking lot so people could save themselves a few minutes of physical effort before they begin their climb up the hill to go mtb'ing.

I really find it somewhat trivial that people complain about clear cutting a couple of acres of second/third growth forest -- yet Im pretty sure that your daily practices contribute to the clear cutting of thousands of acres in other parts of the country/world…..if people werent so ignorant about their daily practices and go about life with their blinders on, there wouldn't be anything shocking about clear cutting a couple acres for a parking lot. But no….its in your backyard so it makes you pipe up.
That hamburger you ate at McDonald's today in part contributed to way more environmental damage than buidling a small parking lot on the side of fromme ever could.
I kinda feel the same way about people who drive around town in their cars with "No pipeline" stickers on the back… actions speak louder than words. But this is a public forum…its only made up of words.

with the increase in ridership since the RPO first went in i can guarantee if that ban was lifted that the people at the top of mt hwy and particularly along mcnair would be inundated with people parking their cars simply for easier trail access. if i lived in that neighborhood i would not be happy with having my street turned into a parking lot so people could save themselves a few minutes of physical effort before they begin their climb up the hill to go mtb'ing.

Fair enough and I agree with the point around increase in ridership being a newer problem.

That said, when I lived near a school, I wasn't happy with having my street turned into a parking lot twice daily either. But then I thought to myself, "tough shit, you live near a school".

Im curious. - Where were all your (collective) comments when DNV asked for residents input?

with the increase in ridership since the RPO first went in i can guarantee if that ban was lifted that the people at the top of mt hwy and particularly along mcnair would be inundated with people parking their cars simply for easier trail access. if i lived in that neighborhood i would not be happy with having my street turned into a parking lot so people could save themselves a few minutes of physical effort before they begin their climb up the hill to go mtb'ing.

What about the people on Mill and Evelyn? All the RPO did was move the parking from McNair down to Mill and Evelyn.

Personally I'd like to three things happen.

Drop the RPO as it stands and disperse the parking around to different zones and have it change on some rotation so that it doesn't just shift the problem from one spot to another.

I'd like to see some limited parking at the water towers for better drop off and people riding with young kids.

Create better trail access from the Braemer area. I can see people supporting parking and climbing from the power lines on Braemer. Most of the best trails finish in this zone, it makes sense to start and end rides there. Connecting a proper climbing trail to the 6th switchback is the biggest hurdle to getting people to park over there.

Parking at the water towers isn't the only solution, but to rule it out it needs to be surveyed and costed out.

What about the people on Mill and Evelyn? All the RPO did was move the parking from McNair down to Mill and Evelyn.

the difference i see with those street is they're not through streets so the traffic congestion isn't as bad as it was on mcnair. at least now the parking is distributed around a bit better vs everyone hunting for the prime spot at the top so there's as little climbing on the road as possible.

Personally I'd like to three things happen.

Drop the RPO as it stands and disperse the parking around to different zones and have it change on some rotation so that it doesn't just shift the problem from one spot to another.

I'd like to see some limited parking at the water towers for better drop off and people riding with young kids.

Create better trail access from the Braemer area. I can see people supporting parking and climbing from the power lines on Braemer. Most of the best trails finish in this zone, it makes sense to start and end rides there. Connecting a proper climbing trail to the 6th switchback is the biggest hurdle to getting people to park over there.

Parking at the water towers isn't the only solution, but to rule it out it needs to be surveyed and costed out.

those first two i don't really with agree for previously mentioned reasons, but your third option makes the most sense and is an idea that's been bandied about for quite some time.

however, if there was to be parking put in it should definitely be paid and that money used to help offset the cost of parking as well as being used to support trail maintenance. i guess my objection here though is that the idea of cutting down trees for a parking lot to save some time climbing for people that are going to do physical activity anyway just seems ludicrous.

the difference i see with those street is they're not through streets so the traffic congestion isn't as bad as it was on mcnair. at least now the parking is distributed around a bit better vs everyone hunting for the prime spot at the top so there's as little climbing on the road as possible.

those first two i don't really with agree for previously mentioned reasons, but your third option makes the most sense and is an idea that's been bandied about for quite some time.

How do young kids access lower Fromme? Hump it up Mountain Hwy with the bus and cars passing them by?

I think if you ask the people that live on those side streets they'll tell you it's worse as they are narrower streets.

I will add that with the work being done on the climbing route from McNair it does open up better parking options at the school on Coleman.

How do young kids access lower Fromme? Hump it up Mountain Hwy with the bus and cars passing them by?

I think if you ask the people that live on those side streets they'll tell you it's worse as they are narrower streets.

I will add that with the work being done on the climbing route from McNair it does open up better parking options at the school on Coleman.

i agree that for some access via mtn hwy is an issue - but there is a sidewalk there to push up if one feels that road access is too difficult or dangerous. as well, there are other riding options besides lower fromme where access is easy. further, there is the drop-off zone as well. there are options.

those side streets are not much worse than mcnair; i see the issue as the volume of traffic. plus those street don't host bus traffic either.

at the end of the day though, the mtb'ing community needs to recognize that this is a problem (parking) that we have created. so in that respect, i think more onus falls on us to find an acceptable solution that meets the needs of most of those involved (residents and users). we may not be able to please everyone, but we should aim to please the majority of those who are impacted the most.

edit
an option that may work is limiting parking to one side of the street for non-residents and have the other side as rpo. while this would help with the actual parking situation, i think you'll still have the traffic issue of people circling the uppermost streets looking for the prime parking spots. as well, have those spots metered and send the revenue back into the trails. that's closer to a win-win if there is one.

Wernie (Tyler Wilkes):
If you had joined us at our presentation to Council in Nov to support MTB in NVan along with the full house, you would know the actual position of the NSMBA is contrary to your continued slanders (libel) here on a public forum.

He said the solution is to bring in staging and parking facilities along with corresponding trail access in the upper Mountain Highway area. Not true. The writer has taken it out of context-the DNV is exploring plans at the top of Mtn Hwy, we are not. Hopefully some of you who weren’t in attendance watched the video at dnv.org?

We believe a parking lot at the top of Mtn Hwy couldn’t possibly handle the traffic in/out or accommodate what I’d guess is 200+ cars on a busy Saturday. “We look forward in 2014 to working with council and staff to come to a solution, whatever that may be,” said Wood. This is a direct quote and illustrates our position. “Whatever that may be.” We are pushing for a solution, and we will be engaged in that outcome.

We in fact are _not _pushing for a parking lot. We want the RPO lifted (to encourage dispersed parking) and trail development in Dempsey area (including a climbing trail to the 6th) to encourage users to that area. All this is aimed at utilizing dispersed parking. The DNV has plans drawn up for parking/staging, stemming from the 2008 ARSS study, of a staging area at the top of Mtn Hwy as well as west of Dempsey. That is what they are currently surveying. It will include public process-this is where your voice can be heard. Posts on the nsmb boards will have little bearing on outcome.

We seek a solution for the whole community, not just bikers. Many of us have no problem biking up mountain highway but that’s not the point. How about access for the physically impaired? Children? The elderly? Remember, it’s not always about you. Ironically, I live in the RPO.

With the numbers of riders and events that occur on the mountain, some type of staging is necessary beyond what currently exists. We totally clog the turnaround at any of our events for anyone seeking access through the gates (in the hanging odour of septic tanks). Anyone attend WEA with nearly 300 people? Speaking of clogging, the sewage smelt great in the hot June sun. We always get complaints from the nudists (and of course, local residents)after every event. It is a significant point of contention. We seek harmony and acceptance in our community. Although these are seldom seen qualities on the nsmb boards, it is an admirable, real world goal.

And really, its not about a parking lot or not, it’s about proper access to a public resource. I disagree with Synchro. Privileged access to a public resource is not a balanced community vision. Further, the RPO was a reaction to our conduct, but was really caused by a lack of facilities, our community simply dealt with this lack, however inappropriately. The RPO was instituted in 2003 as a _temporary _solution in reaction to NIMBY complaints.

Whatever the _permanent _solution is, we want to engage with Council in a real world context which includes meetings, proposals, action plans, and more meetings.

So to recap; we are pushing for dropping the RPO, utilizing dispersed parking, developing proper staging facilities for events and rider use, and trail development in the Dempsey area to encourage access in that zone to further disperse parking.

I suggest in future, when criticizing or slandering the NSMBA or any of its Directors of Officers, you contact them directly at info@nsmba.ca to get informed. Ignorance is not an excuse for public attacks or campaigns of mistruths.

slander? libel? that's a huge stretch considering those quotes were taken from the news article. i can appreciate if you have an issue with the post, but maybe point the finger in the right direction - the incorrect news source.

i'm not suprised you disagree with me but don't see how you can label the current situation as "priveleged access." you do a good job of spin on this but essentially the vast majority of users have the same access except for a few who live in an affected area. in reality it's no different than residential parking in many other areas of the lower mainland where residential parking is limited and the demand for public parking is high.

ps - happy to see that you're not pushing for a parking lot.