Dear Woodro Part 3

What is more insidious: some hot-head occasionally being a douche to people or an oftentimes manipulative trail builder publicly trying to get a man fired from his job?

Seriously, regardless of what you say has happened Lee, how can you expect Mark NOT to follow legal channels to try and shut down your campaign attacking his career? We are no longer just talking about a yelling match here and there or disagreements on trail routing (!??), we are talking about a man's livelihood. You know, somewhat important things LIKE BEING ABLE TO FEED ONE'S FAMILY AND PAY THEIR MORTGAGE!

You have finally made it clear that your only intention is to have Mark fired and removed from the local MTB community. Sorry dude, that just doesn't fly. I had a feeling that was the case when you were saying you just "wanted to be left alone" but we all know now that this is just BS. You are out for blood, out to take away his job and destroy his reputation (one he has admittedly compromised by his actions at times). The only thing more sad is that yours and Sharon's reputations are decimated now as well. All three of you lose and since you brought it into the public domain in a manipulative, destructive fashion, now the whole community loses. Many might not realize how much of a direct and negative impact your campaign has had on certain trails by specific land managers. But I know you do…..and yet you still persist in making this a big public affair because Mark is such a scary guy that you couldn't deal with man to man. Brutal.

If Mark actually threatened you or Sharon, go to the RCMP. If it is less than that, whether you like it or not, the NSMBA is your only avenue to air your grievance. Continuing this personal and very public vendetta against Mark quite frankly just reenforces his legal claims against you and Sharon. And endangers the trail resources that we apparently all want to protect.

Maybe keep Wade and James out of your diatribes too…..it would be a shame to have them tarred with the same agenda that you are pitching here. I certainly hope that you are not speaking for them at least. :(

:werd:

Give it rest Lee. By only having this one sided thread, where Mark is not a participant, you only look foolish with ill intent.

I don`t sit on any side here, but this is ridiculous.

If the Rogue Hoe don't fit….You must acquit.

how do you define long time?

I started hearing things from the builder of natural high about 14 years ago and i stated building about 10 years ago, i think that was around the time the first trail assessment on Fromme was going on and nsmba asked for all trail building to be put on hold especially new "illegal" trails. I think they asked publicly and politely and i think it was a good idea to put a hold on trail building until the land managers had approved a overall plan. but when people continued building they would imply if your not with us you against us(intimidation) or they couldn't help if the land manager decided to tear down any new building or that it would need to be taken down if it didn't meet specs. but i think those specs where very arbitrary back then before trail building guidelines where published and/or well known and the nsmba thought they got to decide what was up to muster or not.(threats to trails, not the trail builder or there livelihood like what might be happening now)

there should be an overall plan and the nsmba should try to influence all trail building because it is bad when people are turned loose to just figure things out as they go. that's why I think the trail academy program should be expanded and to be free for any one interested not just paid members. those highly experienced people should teach others how to do things, come up with overall plans but not delegate trail work. I don't what to go to a trail day where the issue and solution is set out in writing on the trail day poster. a main reason i do trail work is as an artistic expression, i want to come to trail day be handed a shovel and told to go find a problem and come up with a solution with constructive input from experienced builders.

I don't what to go to a trail day where the issue and solution is set out in writing on the trail day poster. a main reason i do trail work is as an artistic expression, i want to come to trail day be handed a shovel and told to go find a problem and come up with a solution with constructive input from experienced builders.

that's a nice vision, but until you've built familiarity with the trail day co-ordinators and they know your level of work how can it be okay to just hand you a shovel and say go? the most efficient way to get a lot of work done is to have a well organized plan that tackles specific areas of need. big trail days are great for accomplishing large tasks where many bodies are required and this doesn't happen if everyone is told to just go find a problem and come up with a solution. i've attended and run enough trail days to know and see the difference that having a defined plan with crew leaders assigned to various work sections makes. if you want to fulfill your artistic expression then the best thing to do is get hooked up with a builder who goes out on a regular basis to work with them or try and attend some of the mini trail days where things might be less structured. it takes time for an individual to be able to have that freedom.

ps - just noticed you're in PG. my comments come from my experience here on the shore, but i feel they are relevant to other locales as well.

Lets get a few things straight here:

- NSMBA has no authority,voice,influence,interest or plan in the land that Lee and a few others work in.

- Lee is speaking up not for only himself, but a small group of people that feel they have been harassed by an employee of a nfp society. Conventional remedies have not been effective, so now it appears the plan is to embarass the individual into backing off.

-the fact that lawyers are involved is laughable….back in my rock bitch days,this would have been settled over a tailgate and a case of beer.

-the fact that excuses have been made for anyones behaviour (especially their employer) is also laughable.

-Lee has one acct on this forum,as does his wife.

You all know what you need to do….firsat thing, all these threads should be locked….not deleted,but locked for historical reference.Comments by people who know neither side of the problem ARE the problem now.Cheap shots and opinion dont matter here….dont post.

The rest is pretty obvious…stay in your own gardens.

I started hearing things from the builder of natural high about 14 years ago and i stated building about 10 years ago, i think that was around the time the first trail assessment on Fromme was going on and nsmba asked for all trail building to be put on hold especially new "illegal" trails. I think they asked publicly and politely and i think it was a good idea to put a hold on trail building until the land managers had approved a overall plan. but when people continued building they would imply if your not with us you against us(intimidation) or they couldn't help if the land manager decided to tear down any new building or that it would need to be taken down if it didn't meet specs. but i think those specs where very arbitrary back then before trail building guidelines where published and/or well known and the nsmba thought they got to decide what was up to muster or not.(threats to trails, not the trail builder or there livelihood like what might be happening now)

there should be an overall plan and the nsmba should try to influence all trail building because it is bad when people are turned loose to just figure things out as they go. that's why I think the trail academy program should be expanded and to be free for any one interested not just paid members. those highly experienced people should teach others how to do things, come up with overall plans but not delegate trail work. I don't what to go to a trail day where the issue and solution is set out in writing on the trail day poster. a main reason i do trail work is as an artistic expression, i want to come to trail day be handed a shovel and told to go find a problem and come up with a solution with constructive input from experienced builders.

lol artistic expression in PG….you like building sandcastles?

dammit….last post in this thread….but i had to.

ps - just noticed you're in PG. my comments come from my experience here on the shore, but i feel they are relevant to other locales as well.

been in PeeG for a year, mostly built on eagle and fromme.

yes it is a lot less efficient, that's what happened when I went to trail days on expresso 10 years ago and Old Man Pete would walk up and down and stop to ask me and my friends what we envisioned and gave his suggestions or critiques without demanding we change to his vision and Pete had never meet me or seen any trail work i had done. yes there needs to be defined plan and crew leads for re-routes or new stunts but rebuilding a small ladder or doing something to protect a exposed root doesn't need to be delegated.

Lets get a few things straight here:

- NSMBA has no authority.

sounds like the nsmba needs to remind Woodro about that fact.

haven't done any building here, barely ridden my bike. mostly paddled around my canoe and shot stuff.

This thing gets more disgusting by the minute.

So fucking tired of it. Had my ride almost ruined today because of it. Trail builders talking about quitting because of it. Nobody willing to take the high road so it just gets lower and lower.

Sick of this shit.
/rant

This thing gets more disgusting by the minute.

So fucking tired of it. Had my ride almost ruined today because of it. Trail builders talking about quitting because of it. Nobody willing to take the high road so it just gets lower and lower.

Sick of this shit.
/rant

So what happens if Lee chooses to pack it in and just drop it, do you think the whole thing will just float away with time? Or are there other divisions that all here are not privy too that will simply get worse over time? Maybe it's time for another attempt at a cooling off period with a commitment to having some sort of agreement reached before the AGM so the NSMBA can say to the membership that the issues have been dealt with and all parties are looking at this as a learning experience so this sort of situation can be avoided in the future.

But I still don't see why the rest of us have to be involved. And the more this is played out in public, the less likely THAT is too.

Then don't click on this particular thread on nsmb

Really, where else are you seeing this other than if you're friends with Lee on facebook? It's a pretty small public forum that it's getting played out in.

The info is there if you want to follow what is happening and it's pretty simple to avoid if you don't.

one eyed asian guy
making enemies online
"why the trail side-eye?"

Umm…I don't condone that kind of haiku.
:(

Lets get a few things straight here:

- NSMBA has no authority,voice,influence,interest or plan in the land that Lee and a few others work in.

Not true. I would argue they have all of those things with the possible exception of authority, just not exclusively so.

The NSMBA is the democratically elected body that represents mountainbikers on the shore. Lee has some potentially legitimate gripes with how they are conducting their employee contracts, but they are the body that negotiates with landowners/managers on all trail and access issues, and as such it is in the communities interest to work with discussion/input from the NSMBA, if not directly under their jurisdiction.

Now, the particular area of land in question is an anomaly as by all accounts the landowner is absent and has shown no interest in limiting or controlling trail development. I would still argue it's in the community's interest to work with guidance/input from the NSMBA so that we don't end up with a tangled mess of shitty trails where everyone just takes it upon themselves to build what they want. Fortunately all the builders involved so far know what they're doing and this hasn't happened, but if you make exceptions for one party who says you do and don't make exceptions for?

Also, can the Haiku writers cut it out? It adds nothing to the discussion and just needlessly bumps the thread.