New posts

Dear Woodro Part 2

July 29, 2015, 9:41 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

Well it's certainly walking that fine line of "excessive flaming".

I would love to see this sort of stuff disappear Kever. Contrary to popular belief, this doesn't help our bottom line one bit and our goals for this mountain bike community always supersede the bottom line anyway.

We'd like to see the parties involved sit down and have a moderated discussion about this but it seems that both sides are more dug in than ever.

Our responsibility in this case is to enforce our terms of use. These checks and balances are what keep us honest, the way the law is supposed to govern police behaviour to prevent abuses of power.

At this point it appears that our terms of use have not been violated. We aren't able to watch threads like this constantly and we often rely on our users to let us know when a line has been crossed. Thus far posts from this thread have not been reported to my knowledge and our oversight hasn't revealed any violations.

If we were to take down every thread we don't like that would violate our principles and our integrity. Despite our allegiances and our community goals, we are not going to take sides by removing a thread simply because one party or another would like it removed. As with any thread, the OP can remove at their discretion.

We aim to remain true to this community and abide by the rules we set out for ourselves. If I was a rank and file member of this forum that is certainly the way I'd like to see it governed, so that's what we do.

July 29, 2015, 10:12 p.m.
Posts: 351
Joined: March 4, 2013

bogus to the point that this guy felt like calling out Digger in a town forum? Come on man

was there a not a time when Digger was given a cease and desist order from the DNV for rogue stunt building? the man is a saint but that doesn't mean he has never made mistakes like the rest of us.

July 29, 2015, 10:28 p.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: May 11, 2014

Well it's certainly walking that fine line of "excessive flaming".

Here's the thing. I respect Cam for keeping the discussion open. If noone has complained to him that's a good sign. But Lee is out for blood here. Rashid said that this has all been dealt with already. So Lee doesn't care what the nsmba does, he just wants to wreck Marks rep. So I kind of agree with you. On the other hand he totally has a good reason to be angry. Sure dub says its one sided, but Mark must be foaming at the mouth to tell his side and I'm sure he has one. Problem is, even his supporters haven't tried to deny anything Lee says. And he's a lawyer, so he knows how to avoid getting sued. If you made up this shit about someone they'd sue your ass.

July 29, 2015, 11:30 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 15, 2007

Sharon can be…..difficult to interact with. I bet she has been yelled at before.

Lee can be…..a very productive but also 40 grit abrasive and manipulative trail machine. Not always easy to deal with.

Mark is…."challenging" at times. Or very challenging depending on the situation with limited to no filters. OK, no filters and at times somewhat of a turd but with good intentions.

They have also ALL been very formative and strong in their support and development of North Shore mountain biking as we know it. They all share traits with the rest of us in the mountain bike community. Not all of those traits are perfect but I for one appreciate all of the work that these people have done for us and our community.

Lee. Stop 'yer public spewing and attacks. It comes across as disingenuous and strategic for personal gain. Your personal actions in the hills are not without question either. Your wife is a big girl who chooses to be strong and direct in her dealings with others. She can stand up and protect herself just fine.

Mark. Good on you for not tying into this public forum discussion…..although I am sure that only happened with strong counsel from respected friends. Or threats. That being said, deal with your employer and come to an understanding about vision, politics, and appropriate employee behaviour. Maybe take a good look at what you are paid to do and see if you can mitigate that vision and personal "passion" with how you relate to others. Like it or not, you are in the hot seat as the paid face of the NSMBA. Rightly or wrongly, you will be held to a higher threshold than a person who baits you from the sidelines.

There are channels to deal with this stuff. This isn't the place. Lee's overt and inappropriately public campaign to call Mark out is destructive both to the community and those that currently (or might in the future) consider supporting our efforts corporately. The grievances may be justified as far as I know. But there is a process to follow and this isn't it.

Build your awesome trails. Post your "No Strava" signs. Close and open your unsanctioned trails. Try not to strongly exert your personal vision into a job that is paid for by the community. Control your temper. All words to live by.

Cease and desist. Stop playing this shite out in the public venue.

July 30, 2015, 6:38 a.m.
Posts: 335
Joined: Nov. 20, 2010

Sharon can be…..difficult to interact with. I bet she has been yelled at before.

Lee can be…..a very productive but also 40 grit abrasive and manipulative trail machine. Not always easy to deal with.

Mark is…."challenging" at times. Or very challenging depending on the situation with limited to no filters. OK, no filters and at times somewhat of a turd but with good intentions.

They have also ALL been very formative and strong in their support and development of North Shore mountain biking as we know it. They all share traits with the rest of us in the mountain bike community. Not all of those traits are perfect but I for one appreciate all of the work that these people have done for us and our community.

Lee. Stop 'yer public spewing and attacks. It comes across as disingenuous and strategic for personal gain. Your personal actions in the hills are not without question either. Your wife is a big girl who chooses to be strong and direct in her dealings with others. She can stand up and protect herself just fine.

Mark. Good on you for not tying into this public forum discussion…..although I am sure that only happened with strong counsel from respected friends. Or threats. That being said, deal with your employer and come to an understanding about vision, politics, and appropriate employee behaviour. Maybe take a good look at what you are paid to do and see if you can mitigate that vision and personal "passion" with how you relate to others. Like it or not, you are in the hot seat as the paid face of the NSMBA. Rightly or wrongly, you will be held to a higher threshold than a person who baits you from the sidelines.

There are channels to deal with this stuff. This isn't the place. Lee's overt and inappropriately public campaign to call Mark out is destructive both to the community and those that currently (or might in the future) consider supporting our efforts corporately. The grievances may be justified as far as I know. But there is a process to follow and this isn't it.

Build your awesome trails. Post your "No Strava" signs. Close and open your unsanctioned trails. Try not to strongly exert your personal vision into a job that is paid for by the community. Control your temper. All words to live by.

Cease and desist. Stop playing this shite out in the public venue.

Perfectly said.

Also, I do not think trail access and advocacy has ever been as strong as it is today (regardless of where you sit on the 'dumbing down issue').

I'd like to acknowledge Mark, Lee and Sharon for their huge part, and extraordinary efforts.

July 30, 2015, 12:04 p.m.
Posts: 8596
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

Flaming? I haven't seen that Kever. Maybe you could point it out for us?

This is the definition we use.

Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)

Well it's certainly walking that fine line of "excessive flaming".

July 30, 2015, 12:07 p.m.
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan. 12, 2006

Flaming? I haven't seen that Kever. Maybe you could point it out for us?

This is the definition we use.

Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)

July 30, 2015, 12:39 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

I suppose I equated "flaming" with public defamation of character. By the wiki definition you're right, no forum rules have been broken.

Flaming? I haven't seen that Kever. Maybe you could point it out for us?

This is the definition we use.

Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)

July 30, 2015, 4:15 p.m.
Posts: 333
Joined: Dec. 21, 2008

OK - let me get this correct - youre willing to judge someone I assume you have never met and write them off as a ZERO because you read this thread? Riight ---

Lee has well established that fact that hhe is well capable himself of douchebaggery - to the point that he feels he needs to reinforce his own points by giving kudos to his own posts with bogus ID's - bogus to the point that this guy felt like calling out Digger in a town forum? Come on man -- have a look at what you just got trolled into. Lee bringing this beef to a public forum where he well knows Mark can't respond (for many obvious reasons) is another fine example of the quackery that Lee is capable of….but youre wiling to take his one sided, edited and redacted account of events and happenings of what went/is going on as the Holy Gospel….

I smell something.

Your assumptions are wrong. I have met and worked alongside Mark on multiple trail days. I have also known Sharon since before she started riding and have helped build trails with her and Lee. No doubt Mark has put a lot of time and energy into the trails but that doesn't excuse his behavior. I also don't believe that he 'can't ' respond here.

July 30, 2015, 5:39 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

I suppose I equated "flaming" with public defamation of character. By the wiki definition you're right, no forum rules have been broken.

I believe defamation of character requires that the accusations be false. To my knowledge, nobody has disputed any of the claims Lee has made.

July 30, 2015, 7:05 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

treezz
wow you are a ass

July 30, 2015, 7:07 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

Speaking for those that are unfamiliar with the politics of the trail building world (and likely those that lurk, but don't post their opinion), this thread is doing more harm than good.

I'm not questioning, judging, negating, or minimizing the issues between the parties, but I will say that this particular post makes it clear that getting involved (good-natured volunteering)in trail work has the potential for jumping into a powder-keg.

I would just add that my experience with TAP days (limited in the past 2 years as it is) is that it's a good atmosphere where lots gets done. My negative experiences are because Sharon and I choose to do the bulk of our trailwork independently.

July 30, 2015, 7:14 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

As for the alleged behaviour getting a free pass; the appropriate actions were taken in order to investigate and substantiate concerns brought forth and those with merit were address, privately.

I would just add that the NSMBA board addressed the concerns of James and I in May 2014 and Sharon and I in May 2015 respectfully. While we don't necessarily agree with all of their conclusions the board heard us out and we had a civil discussion. The board also heard me out respectfully when I spoke at the 2015 Town Hall to the topic of the NSMBA 101 document and the board heard me out when I put forward the position that they had no authority regarding trailwork other than on Metro or DNV land.

As I see it the issue is that despite the NSMBA board's efforts Mark Wood fails to leave Sharon or I alone. It was at the very same NSMBA Townhall 2015 meeting where Mark Wood was shouting and screaming at Sharon; in front of many witnesses.

July 30, 2015, 7:19 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

Here's the thing. I respect Cam for keeping the discussion open. If noone has complained to him that's a good sign. But Lee is out for blood here. Rashid said that this has all been dealt with already. So Lee doesn't care what the nsmba does, he just wants to wreck Marks rep. So I kind of agree with you. On the other hand he totally has a good reason to be angry. Sure dub says its one sided, but Mark must be foaming at the mouth to tell his side and I'm sure he has one. Problem is, even his supporters haven't tried to deny anything Lee says. And he's a lawyer, so he knows how to avoid getting sued. If you made up this shit about someone they'd sue your ass.

Marlz - I know you've said this before and I just wanted to clarify one thing. I want Mark Wood to leave Sharon and I alone. I would like it if didn't blackmail my friends simply because they're my friends. I don't want him to spread further lies about Sharon, James or Wade.

I do appreciate what the NSMBA's Board tried to do and am glad they had the courtesy of hearing out our May 2014 and May 2015 requests to be left alone. Unfortunately the NSMBA board had limited success in restraining Mark.

If Mark Wood can commit to leaving us alone then this ends.

As you noted, the emails, PMs and actions I have posted in Part 1 and 2 are Mark's own actions. All I have done is publicized them. They are his actions to explain.

July 30, 2015, 7:24 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

Sharon can be…..difficult to interact with. I bet she has been yelled at before.

Lee can be…..a very productive but also 40 grit abrasive and manipulative trail machine. Not always easy to deal with.

Mark is…."challenging" at times. Or very challenging depending on the situation with limited to no filters. OK, no filters and at times somewhat of a turd but with good intentions.

They have also ALL been very formative and strong in their support and development of North Shore mountain biking as we know it. They all share traits with the rest of us in the mountain bike community. Not all of those traits are perfect but I for one appreciate all of the work that these people have done for us and our community.

Lee. Stop 'yer public spewing and attacks. It comes across as disingenuous and strategic for personal gain. Your personal actions in the hills are not without question either. Your wife is a big girl who chooses to be strong and direct in her dealings with others. She can stand up and protect herself just fine.

Mark. Good on you for not tying into this public forum discussion…..although I am sure that only happened with strong counsel from respected friends. Or threats. That being said, deal with your employer and come to an understanding about vision, politics, and appropriate employee behaviour. Maybe take a good look at what you are paid to do and see if you can mitigate that vision and personal "passion" with how you relate to others. Like it or not, you are in the hot seat as the paid face of the NSMBA. Rightly or wrongly, you will be held to a higher threshold than a person who baits you from the sidelines.

There are channels to deal with this stuff. This isn't the place. Lee's overt and inappropriately public campaign to call Mark out is destructive both to the community and those that currently (or might in the future) consider supporting our efforts corporately. The grievances may be justified as far as I know. But there is a process to follow and this isn't it.

Build your awesome trails. Post your "No Strava" signs. Close and open your unsanctioned trails. Try not to strongly exert your personal vision into a job that is paid for by the community. Control your temper. All words to live by.

Cease and desist. Stop playing this shite out in the public venue.

Boozy - I admit I can be a sarcastic ass and I promise to try to stop being so snarky. You know how to contact me via the email address at trailheads. Input is appreciated (no sarcasm).

I had reservations about going the public route but as I mentioned I had tried talking to Mark (it was a one-way shouting match; those who know how this goes will understand) and the two attempts via the NSMBA board. Since I started down this public route I also made an offer to talk to Mark directly with a mediator on hand to keep the discussion civil. That offer was rejected. Frankly I don't see what other options I had

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you about the effect on Sharon. She's looking over her shoulder now when she rides on trails. Trails she's worked on or advocated for or ridden for 20+ years. That's just not acceptable.

Forum jump: