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Dear Woodro Part 2

July 25, 2015, 5:43 p.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Nat Bailey

I thought it was Sideshow.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

July 25, 2015, 5:51 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

Kevin. I respectfully disagree. I've discussed Mark's behaviour in his own words and his deeds. I'm perfectly fine with having others disagree with my points.

IMO you've both done good things for the community and both made mistakes, that's fine and that's part of being human. I just don't see anything constructive coming from this. You've had your feud for 3 plus years, I don't think this thread is going to solve anything and it isn't garnering respect for either of you. But yeah, I suppose that is just my opinion and opinions are a dime a dozen.

July 25, 2015, 5:53 p.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

why? because yelling at Sharon and harassing her in front of witnesses in the first place was oh-so-civil? I'm sorry, but are you joking? Don't you see the irony in your statement?

After further thought. Whatever disagreement one has to whatever trail work is being done. The behaviour of intimidating a woman to the point of carrying video taping equipment is concerning more than the trail work issue.

Sorry, but if this was say the military this would be all over the evening news. While the NSMB Association is not a government agency the organization has responsibility of those they employ or contract. So if M Wood the next time gets out of hand and makes physical contact with Sharon. This sets up NSMB Association to get sued for their negligence.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

July 25, 2015, 7:20 p.m.
Posts: 26
Joined: March 20, 2015

I have compiled a full page of all your actions

One FULL page! Well done. Or did you just write in big letters with your crayons? Did you use a different color for each word to make it look pretty? Did Mark reach around and bedazzle it while you were doing it?

July 25, 2015, 7:21 p.m.
Posts: 11178
Joined: June 4, 2008

As someone who knows neither, the action of one was to delete their account.

If there's anything more Harper-esque, I don't know what it is.

July 25, 2015, 7:40 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

As someone who knows neither, the action of one was to delete their account.

If there's anything more Harper-esque, I don't know what it is.

Trail donkey = Pierre pollievre

July 25, 2015, 8:20 p.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

One FULL page! Well done. Or did you just write in big letters with your crayons? Did you use a different color for each word to make it look pretty? Did Mark reach around and bedazzle it while you were doing it?

You're entire history of posts on NSMB has consisted of nothing but attacks on Mark and the NSMBA. Just saying…

July 25, 2015, 9:42 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

IMO you've both done good things for the community and both made mistakes, that's fine and that's part of being human. I just don't see anything constructive coming from this. You've had your feud for 3 plus years, I don't think this thread is going to solve anything and it isn't garnering respect for either of you. But yeah, I suppose that is just my opinion and opinions are a dime a dozen.

K. I know how much effort you've put into Cypress and other trails and all the "glamorous brush cutting" that was done. We've also put in a good day of trailwork together so you deserve a reply and I'm not brushing off your opinion.

Sure anyone who does trailwork is convinced they're right and sure not everyone is going to agree. Sure I think it's a joke that Mark has the attitude that only he is right and everyone else is wrong and sure I think he's got delusions that everyone who does trailwork on the Shore should go through him. Sure him and I butt heads and disagree.

But when most builders disagree they don't start trying to blackmail the other person's friends. They don't start picking on their wives; screaming at them. Or making up lies about what the other person is doing. K - I did not want this to go public. That's why I met the NSMBA directors twice and asked them to control Mark and ask him to leave us alone. Their efforts failed. Twice.

If exposing Mark's deceit, hypocrisy, bullying and lies and documenting them makes him less likely to harass Sharon (I don't know if it will) then that's all I can really ask for out of this exercise. I agree it won't solve his bullying behaviour but that's not what I'm asking for. All I'm asking is for him to leave Sharon alone. Until I can get some assurance of this I don't see any reason to stop.

I hope we can go for that promised deathmarch ski tour next winter and that when the snow flies all this will be past.

July 25, 2015, 10:16 p.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: May 11, 2014

Lee, you are the problem, you are the one that has been trying to get under Marks skin and creating issues this whole time.

you even called out all the "sellout trail advocates in BC" and bashed on any work the NSMBA has done!

Oh BTW Mr.Lau, you forgot to mention that you were the first one to post that the "no quarter" climb was punched out on trail forks,

I want to get both sides. but I read through your post and got this much that wasn't just a personal insult. Your mad. I understand that, and I would be too if someone did what Lee Lau is doing to a friend of mine.

But you don't with what Lee says Mark did?

Can you share more of your side? If Lee wants to sort it out here. Lets sort it out. Lay out your side and lets get it done with.

July 25, 2015, 11:26 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

K. I know how much effort you've put into Cypress and other trails and all the "glamorous brush cutting" that was done. We've also put in a good day of trailwork together so you deserve a reply and I'm not brushing off your opinion.

Sure anyone who does trailwork is convinced they're right and sure not everyone is going to agree. Sure I think it's a joke that Mark has the attitude that only he is right and everyone else is wrong and sure I think he's got delusions that everyone who does trailwork on the Shore should go through him. Sure him and I butt heads and disagree.

But when most builders disagree they don't start trying to blackmail the other person's friends. They don't start picking on their wives; screaming at them. Or making up lies about what the other person is doing. K - I did not want this to go public. That's why I met the NSMBA directors twice and asked them to control Mark and ask him to leave us alone. Their efforts failed. Twice.

If exposing Mark's deceit, hypocrisy, bullying and lies and documenting them makes him less likely to harass Sharon (I don't know if it will) then that's all I can really ask for out of this exercise. I agree it won't solve his bullying behaviour but that's not what I'm asking for. All I'm asking is for him to leave Sharon alone. Until I can get some assurance of this I don't see any reason to stop.

I hope we can go for that promised deathmarch ski tour next winter and that when the snow flies all this will be past.

OK, I don't want to make things too personal as I do respect the amount and type of trail work that both you and Mark do. Mark and I have talked about some of these issues in the past so I'll do my best to share his perspective. That being said, I don't want to make a habit of being his little birdy, I just think his side of the story needs to be shared so it's not so one sided.

Re: Part 1 Asian Adonis

Mark has a vision of what he wants the lower seymour zone to look like and was peeved that a trail was built outside of his vision. I'm not saying his vision was the only one that matters, but I am saying that the trail was put in without consulting the NSMBA, and he feels this is done in poor taste. He has told me that metro van has used the building of asian adonis as an excuse to put off or nix other projects in that area. Why metro van is concerned about happenings in land not managed by them is a mystery to me.

The changing of the description and negative reports are on him.

Re: Part 2 …

Mapbook. Mark is pissed that the NSMBA logo was used in the mapbook despite his asking not to. Although you started the NSMBA, at present you have chosen to operate outside of that umbrella and he feels that including the NSMBA endorsement is unwarranted for that reason. I'll have to ask him specifically about his reason for sending that private message, it seems unethical.

The "lies to land manager" seems to be a he said she said situation so I don't want to touch that. The crux of the Marks argument is that he sees new trails being built on seymour as a detriment to the good will the NSMBA is trying to establish with land managers. Bigger picture, he sees any new trail that is built on Fromme or Seymour (light side) as a threat to the relationship with active land managers. Hence why new trails need to remain secret, but never do because there are few secrets in North Vancouver. Matthew Bond said in a town hall meeting 2 or 3 years ago that the biggest threat to the organization was the proliferation of "loamers", due to trying to be good neighbours with land managers. Mark's intense hate of you and Sharon (which is not shared by me) stems from his view that your work is at odds with his and jeopardizes the future of his work and vision.

Re: yelling at Sharon, I observed things escalating quickly at the town hall meeting and that seems to be a two way street. Other than that I can't comment.

Mark is the first to admit that he's a bit of a hothead who can let his passion and temper get the best of him. I don't think you, Sharon and him will ever fully resolve the deep dislike for each other, but I do hope that both parties can ignore each other enough to carry on working on trails. Your solution of leaving each other alone does seem to be the best possible option. Leaving each other alone means both parties stopping the mud slinging and focusing on making the best trail network for the community.

Mark is a community minded builder who probably puts in more building hours than anyone except digger. Everyone who builds needs to have thick skin, as most praise is silent and everyone negative opinions are loud. Let the little things bounce off. I'll continue to try to keep Mark accountable as we do build and ride together occasionally.

Not sure how helpful this response was as you probably knew all this already but it needed to be said.

July 25, 2015, 11:53 p.m.
Posts: 33211
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I thought it was Sideshow.

Both guys can be pretty funny.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

July 26, 2015, 11:58 a.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Mark is a community minded builder who probably puts in more building hours than anyone except digger. Everyone who builds needs to have thick skin, as most praise is silent and everyone negative opinions are loud. Let the little things bounce off. I'll continue to try to keep Mark accountable as we do build and ride together occasionally.

Not sure how helpful this response was as you probably knew all this already but it needed to be said.

Unfortunately none of what is going on is doing anything to encourage people to be involved. Speaking from experience of a similar series of events in 2009 that I will not elaborate further on. But it ended up pretty much like this with similar actions as Mark W and exceeded them….the individual went out with a chainsaw and cut everything that didn't fit his "vision" of our local trails.

Many who where involved till then walked away and never came back. Myself walked away and will NEVER do trail work on public land again because of one individuals ego and "vision". And I would not blame Lee and Sharon if they do the same.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

July 26, 2015, 10:10 p.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: May 11, 2014

Thanks Kever. That's a lot of great info. It's good to hear the other side.

Some thoughts:

The Adonis thing is weird. If Mark/NSMBA had a plan, that's cool and should be respected, but if CMHC is a free for all building place, its kind of a lot for them to expect everyone to follow the plan. But if Lee knew there was a plan and went a built the trail anyway, sure he had every right to do that, but it's a bit of a dick move. If the plan wasn't public, its dumb of Mark to get pissed off about his secret plan getting fucked with.

July 27, 2015, 9:24 a.m.
Posts: 3801
Joined: April 13, 2003

AA is on CHMC land so there is no threat to active land managers. Penny Lane and all the other new trails/work would have the same affect as AA.

:canada:

July 27, 2015, 9:37 a.m.
Posts: 16180
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Mark is the first to admit that he's a bit of a hothead who can let his passion and temper get the best of him.

Regardless of work ethic, effort, quality or any other metric, I really wonder if the NSMBA really wants someone with anger management problems as the salaried face of their organization.

Seriously, it takes 5 minutes of one person's rage to undo years of goodwill gained. Calling it "passion" does nothing other than trivialize a serious problem.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

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