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Dear Woodro Part 2

July 20, 2015, 4:36 p.m.
Posts: 296
Joined: Jan. 25, 2011

Nothing says crazy like a 1 sided rant several slashes into your own website…

Every time I see the name Lee Lau on mtb social media right now, some toxic comment follows. It's pathetic and sad. Take into account all his pseudo nsmb handles and it borders on pathological. Please stop poisoning the well for the rest of us.

Like some others have mentioned, it doesn't take a detective to figure out we're seeing the tip of the iceberg here. If you're going to air out your dirty laundry in public, why don't you give us the whole back story? Or would that just shed light into things you'd rather not be public knowledge?

If your unsanctioned trail building efforts leave you this bitter and resentful, maybe it's time to take a step back.

July 20, 2015, 5:31 p.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

[QUOTE=ol' dirty;2880940]If you're going to air out your dirty laundry in public, why don't you give us the whole back story? Or would that just shed light into things you'd rather not be public knowledge?

Which brings up 2 important questions After all the hard work you and Sharon put into the NSMBA. Why did you leave? Is this the back story we all need to hear? Many of us saw how angry you made Digger at the Town Hall. How does your relationship with Todd play into this? What really went on when you left the NSMBA?

Second. Is it not true that you still contact people in authority as a representative of the mountain biking community? As I'm not clear how to be part of your clique do they realize that you are not representing the mountain bike community as a whole if you are? If there is a way to be a member of your club then how do I join? Do you hold meetings or have an AGM to discuss what is important to your members? Is it a public group on facebook? I need to know where you get the idea that if you are talking to landowners that you speak for poor little voiceless me if you dont let me join your group.

Lets start with those 2 questions Lee. I think a lot of people here would like to know the answers.

July 20, 2015, 5:41 p.m.
Posts: 399
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Which brings up 2 important questions After all the hard work you and Sharon put into the NSMBA. Why did you leave? Is this the back story we all need to hear? Many of us saw how angry you made Digger at the Town Hall. How does your relationship with Todd play into this? What really went on when you left the NSMBA?

nothing "went on" when they left the nsmba, they had simply reached a point where they needed a break from all the effort they had put in, particularly Sharon in her work with the district and ARSS. when they left there was no bad blood and Digger wasn't really in the picture at that time in an official capacity.

Second. Is it not true that you still contact people in authority as a representative of the mountain biking community? As I'm not clear how to be part of your clique do they realize that you are not representing the mountain bike community as a whole if you are? If there is a way to be a member of your club then how do I join? Do you hold meetings or have an AGM to discuss what is important to your members? Is it a public group on facebook? I need to know where you get the idea that if you are talking to landowners that you speak for poor little voiceless me if you dont let me join your group.

Lets start with those 2 questions Lee. I think a lot of people here would like to know the answers.

any person who rides can be in contact with the land managers if they want to, it's simply a matter of picking up a phone or sending an email. i would assume that the land managers are aware that Sharon and Lee are no longer active directors with the nsmba, but i would guess they may be more willing to consider their input due to their previous work. however, i don't get the "idea" that they represent little old you or me in dealing with land managers and i don't see them as actively consulting with land managers on mtb policy.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

July 20, 2015, 6:27 p.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

Thanks Syncro but lets hear it again from Lee. He certainly has time to spend building and working towards advocacy and lots of other good things. I would like to know why he stopped doing it withen the NSMBA that he helped build? He stopped before Mark Wood so that can't be it. Was it someone else? Did he realize the rules he helped forge were to limiting?

July 20, 2015, 6:34 p.m.
Posts: 399
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Thanks Syncro but lets hear it again from Lee. He certainly has time to spend building and working towards advocacy and lots of other good things. I would like to know why he stopped doing it withen the NSMBA that he helped build? He stopped before Mark Wood so that can't be it. Was it someone else? Did he realize the rules he helped forge were to limiting?

like i said, they were burnt out and needed a break - that's all there was too it really. there weren't any interpersonal conflicts going on at the time and they got along well with the people who were there.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

July 20, 2015, 7:22 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

You're right, it's all very one-sided.

Why hasn't Mark Wood or anyone from NSMBA answered the questions?

July 20, 2015, 7:25 p.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

like i said, they were burnt out and needed a break - that's all there was too it really. there weren't any interpersonal conflicts going on at the time and they got along well with the people who were there.

Which opens another question. Director burn out has always been a problem with the NSMBA. With this level of behaviour is Lee aware of the damage he is causing and the risk of a mass exodus of the entire board? I have no evidence to support this but I would not be suprised that if Lee keeps going this might be a problem? Rachid already announced his departure. I wonder who is next.

Also while I'm still going. Lee what is your end game here? You obviously want Mark gone. Do you have a replacement in mind? Do you want to disband TAP? Where do you see this going,

July 20, 2015, 8:05 p.m.
Posts: 26
Joined: March 20, 2015

Why hasn't Mark Wood or anyone from NSMBA answered the questions?

There has been a response. Mark has deleted his accounts on here, there was that out of the blue NSMBA coffee morning, and the NSMBA facebook page has been portrarying him in a positive light, riding with kids and such.

July 20, 2015, 8:10 p.m.
Posts: 1885
Joined: Oct. 16, 2005

It could also be that Rachid has put in a huge number of hours over a large number of years and it's time to refocus that time on riding, work, family, etc. Unless if you have some inside knowledge of his motivations that you aren't sharing I think it's inappropriate to link his departure to this, or any other, episode of "As The Shore Turns".

His hard work and dedication is Hugely appreciated -- even more so by people who have an idea of how many hours that has added up to -- and I hope that he is well remembered as one of the great "Builders" of the organization long after he is not involved in the day-to-day actions.

"Burn out" has always been, and will always be, an issue/reality with every volunteer organization -- and the more passionate the membership the higher the burn through.

.

Lee has outlined, in his way, the issues that he has with Mark. Presumably Mark has issues with Lee/Sharon. Obviously neither party is willing to capitulate… as "Dubprof" said neither party is a "pushover."

Mountain Biking -- or at least Mountain Biking on the Shore -- has always had a lot of BIG Personalities (Digger/Todd, Lee, Sharon, Mark Wood all mentioned in this thread // you could probably come up with 100+ names if you sat down for a bit) and obviously what's needed when you have two (or four, or maybe more) big personalities, passionate and dedicated about building/maintaining trails on the shore, staring down each others noses is some kind of neutral mediation.

There are lots of great candidates who have given a ton of time, sweet, and passion to the Shore but who aren't "Big Personalities" who would be great, level headed, choices (Matt Bond, Alan Bardsley, Rachid, Brian Earle, Papa John Kearns, Ken Maude, just off the top of my head) and having a couple of them sit down with Mark [HTML_REMOVED] Lee to at the very least agree to terms of a cease fire (live-and-let live / leave each other the fuck alone) if not a detente (agree to disagree / move on with trail work / look at ways to rebuild trust) seems like it would be a great idea?

.

On a personal level. It was highly recommended to Trail Fairy / Lee that if he was going to choose this path in the evolution of his conflict with Mark that he do it under his own name (Lee Lau). I think you raise some valid points, but doing so anonymously negates from your argument.

Cheers,

There has been a response. Mark has deleted his accounts on here, there was that out of the blue NSMBA coffee morning, and the NSMBA facebook page has been portrarying him in a positive light, riding with kids and such.

I don't know anything about the NSMBA's social media program, but I can say unequivocally that the "meet-the-mayor" style coffee morning with Vince et. al. was planned long in advance of this shit show.

It's really too bad as it is/was a great opportunity to meet some of the awesome volunteers driving the NSMBA one-on-one. I really hope they'll organize another one.

Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!

Trails For All; Trails For Weather

July 20, 2015, 8:56 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

[QUOTE=ol' dirty;2880940]Nothing says crazy like a 1 sided rant several slashes into your own website…

Every time I see the name Lee Lau on mtb social media right now, some toxic comment follows. It's pathetic and sad. Take into account all his pseudo nsmb handles and it borders on pathological. Please stop poisoning the well for the rest of us.

Like some others have mentioned, it doesn't take a detective to figure out we're seeing the tip of the iceberg here. If you're going to air out your dirty laundry in public, why don't you give us the whole back story? Or would that just shed light into things you'd rather not be public knowledge?

If your unsanctioned trail building efforts leave you this bitter and resentful, maybe it's time to take a step back.

You're right. I've been snarky and childish with the "golden berm", "dumbing down" etc etc sniping. It's childish. It's not helpful. I'll stop.

July 20, 2015, 9:15 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

^^ This - What we have seen so far in this situation is all one-sided. There's also someone else's perspective who is missing from this discussion. I hardly consider Lee's presentation of events to be unbiased - (based on his initial set of derogatory questions, insinuation that Mark was about to go all Jihadist on AA, and misrepresentation of facts that Mark has only been involved in the shore for 4 years - all done in an effort to sway the opinion of his audience

I can only assume that something Lee/Sharon et.al initiated irked Mark - it might have to do with AA, it might be something more. Mark tends to be a bang-on guy from my dealings with him when it comes to trail politics - but he's also not a pushover. Perhaps the building of AA caused a shitstorm of controversy which Mark has had to deal with behind the scenes? I don't know - but until we get both sides of this story no one should be drawing lines in the sand.

M - hopefully you'll take this as an honest attempt to answer your question and not to be lecturing.

CMHC is an absentee land manager. They took over from the old lands at the base of Seymour a few decades ago from the Department of National Defence - 50's if I recall. They wanted to develop the lower lands but in the mid to late 80s the DNV put in restrictions on land development on the CMHC lands so now the land is effectively useless to them. We tried communicating with them as early as the early to mid 2000s when we figured out the bizarre patchwork land ownership of Seymour. Also tried contacting them when we were putting in the North Shore Rippers of the mid 2000s to late 2000s. BC Parks tells me they tried contacting them too on some projects and were ignored until they finally got hold of some official who told them they'd rather not know what was going on. Apparently Metro has had some success actually talking to them.

Asian Adonis and Shorn Scrotum is completely on CMHC land. The trailwork we're doing on Upper and Lower C-Buster and AA/SS don't even touch Metro land. The B-P where AA ends is leased by Metro but is not their land. Per Metro - we don't care; its not our land. You'll see mention of this in links I posted where I discussed this with Vince at the NSMBA Town Hall and in the edits to the NSMBA 101 document.

If Mark is discussing accommodation with the CMHC to sanction trails and our work is jeopardizing that then I have no knowledge of that. Neither him or anyone at the NSMBA has ever told us or suggested that is happening. In fact I was told by the NSMBA that their work on the CMHC trails are of the same legitimacy as ours

July 20, 2015, 9:28 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

Which brings up 2 important questions After all the hard work you and Sharon put into the NSMBA. Why did you leave? Is this the back story we all need to hear? Many of us saw how angry you made Digger at the Town Hall. How does your relationship with Todd play into this? What really went on when you left the NSMBA?

I was burnt out. I was a founder in 97 and 2nd President after Mitch Diem for 3 years. I did communications and organized trail days and a lot of the admin stuff for another 3 years after that when Jeremy Powers then Dave Diplock were President. Then when Sharon was President for another 5 years I still helped with trail days (but less), grant-writing, Ripper organization, land manager meetings etc etc. You were a director so you'd know. 11 years of being involved as a volunteer for a not-for-profit is IMO taking you well past your best before date.

As for Todd, well he's got strong opinions and so do I. We've agreed and disagreed in the past and I'd bet we'll agree and disagree in the future.

That was rambling but I had a hard time leaving. There was always so much to do. Even up till 2014 I helped write some grants, helped get a corporate TAP sponsor and was going to help with a refresher on the 2006 Economic Impact Study (now delayed).

Second. Is it not true that you still contact people in authority as a representative of the mountain biking community? As I'm not clear how to be part of your clique do they realize that you are not representing the mountain bike community as a whole if you are? If there is a way to be a member of your club then how do I join? Do you hold meetings or have an AGM to discuss what is important to your members? Is it a public group on facebook? I need to know where you get the idea that if you are talking to landowners that you speak for poor little voiceless me if you dont let me join your group.

Lets start with those 2 questions Lee. I think a lot of people here would like to know the answers.

I don't hold myself out to be a community representative. But I've known the key people at the various land managers for so long and tried to be straightforward with them so I suppose they will listen to me. When I PM'ed, for example about using the game cams for firebugs that was an individual effort.

Thanks Syncro but lets hear it again from Lee. He certainly has time to spend building and working towards advocacy and lots of other good things. I would like to know why he stopped doing it withen the NSMBA that he helped build? He stopped before Mark Wood so that can't be it. Was it someone else? Did he realize the rules he helped forge were to limiting?

Understand that the rules that were forged only apply to Metro and DNV (see the NSMBA 101 document). Along with Shar and Jeremy Powers we sat on the Alpine Rec Strategic Study meetings that led to many Fromme trails being sanctioned and the permitting system being put into place. But there's still huge swathes of trails in the North Shore where there's no permitting system and where trailwork is at the initiative of the individual. So the rules weren't actually limiting.

July 20, 2015, 9:36 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

Which opens another question. Director burn out has always been a problem with the NSMBA. With this level of behaviour is Lee aware of the damage he is causing and the risk of a mass exodus of the entire board? I have no evidence to support this but I would not be suprised that if Lee keeps going this might be a problem? Rachid already announced his departure. I wonder who is next.

Also while I'm still going. Lee what is your end game here? You obviously want Mark gone. Do you have a replacement in mind? Do you want to disband TAP? Where do you see this going,

Sorry I missed this. I've asked the board twice (May 2014 and May 2015) to ask Mark to leave Shar and I alone. The board was kind enough to hear us out and convey this request to Mark. Twice Mark has breached this for reasons that were never made clear to us even when we asked Mark. I'd like it if the Board could take the additional step to control Mark. Will that stress out the Board? I don't know.

My ask is for Mark to leave Sharon and I alone. There are people working on DNV and Metro land independent of the NSMBA. There are all the Cypress builders. As far as I know they do not get harassed. Their friends don't get blackmail PMs. In other towns in the Sea to Sky and the Fraser Valley there are countless builders who don't work with WORCA, SORCA, FVMBA, TORCA and this works fine.

I don't feel that is an unreasonable request.

July 20, 2015, 9:45 p.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

Thanks Lee for the level headed straight forward reply.

Andrew

July 20, 2015, 10:01 p.m.
Posts: 7306
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

I was burnt out. I was a founder in 97 and 2nd President after Mitch Diem for 3 years. I did communications and organized trail days and a lot of the admin stuff for another 3 years after that when Jeremy Powers then Dave Diplock were President. Then when Sharon was President for another 5 years I still helped with trail days (but less), grant-writing, Ripper organization, land manager meetings etc etc. You were a director so you'd know. 11 years of being involved as a volunteer for a not-for-profit is IMO taking you well past your best before date.

I think I would have burned out long before that…..

Thanks for your efforts and time.

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