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Council Workshop-Seymour Trails Strategic Plan

Dec. 16, 2020, 11:11 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: mudrunner

Posted by: gramm

Posted by: LoamtoHome

I'm pretty sure Steve J is correct that DNV already knows what they want to do.... if they have more trails, more staff, more money more work more liability. Just easier to pay a consultant to say that these trails don't meet environmental standards and shut them down and pretend they are environmental stewards of the forest. I know of at least 4 trails on Fromme that got shut from DNV.

Meanwhile dogs roam free and poo bags everywhere cuz dogs are cute.

Steve Jones was very well spoken and had some great thoughts and questions for Council.

Mtn Bikers are such a problem, dogs pooing everywhere, chasing wildlife, running through swamps and creeks no problem though, not to mention the hundreds if not thousands of missing poo bags that must be in the forest these days....

Yep...I see a lot of those poo bags, but I have noticed that they tend to be at the beginnings/ends of trails (dogs tend to take a crap sooner than later in a walk....they are not ones to hold it in). Often, they are withing a few 100m of a garbage receptacle. I cannot figure out why owners leave the bags in place expecting someone else to clean up after them. While riding recently, I found three bags near the Dempsey Connector, so I placed them on a bridge handrail for others to see (maybe they would get the idea)....they stayed there for 4 days before I finally took them out myself. The good news is that there were no new bags added. :-)

The dog walking companies used to keep on top of it because its bad for business. Now that's out with covid I'm guessing.  Why the tennis courts trail head on Breamar no longer has a garbage can is a mystery.

Dec. 16, 2020, 2:08 p.m.
Posts: 447
Joined: Nov. 25, 2013

After listening to the recording, I am generally encouraged by the mindset of the DNV. There is a general understanding of the importance that the trails play in our identity as a community and they are invested in making sure that the network is sustainably maintained. Now lets see the $$ and actions follow, but this seemed like a good start to me. I think the speakers from the public helped and yes, a few standouts were very well spoken.

Somewhat related, it is awesome to hear that we flooded the DNV email inbox advocating for mountain biking on the shore. There was acknowledgement that we are a vocal and a well organized sport (under the NSMBA umbrella), so we need to continue be the example of what good looks like, be part of the solution and play nice with all other trail users. I'm sure we all don't want council to start seeing mountain biking as a "thorn in their side".  

We don't say it enough - kudos to the NSMBA

Dec. 17, 2020, 8:40 a.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

In a meeting with the Mayor of DNV not too long ago. It was said that the vast majority of the trail users that come over to the North Shore spend zero on local business. This is first hand info..... So pumping money into the local trail network may be low priority. The better trail networks create more revenue argument doesn't fly with them (DNV). The Quarry Rock example was brought up on how the DNV has to pay for traffic control on a busy weekend so the costs outweigh the money spent. I guess that's why pay parking is coming in.


 Last edited by: Brocklanders on Dec. 17, 2020, 8:57 a.m., edited 3 times in total.
Dec. 17, 2020, 1:42 p.m.
Posts: 1657
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

They should ask Bean Around The World, Spirits of Seymour, A&W, Husky, Deep Cove Brewing, Bridge Brewing, Wildeye, United Strangers, Honey's, Deep Cove Pizza, etc. how much of their weekend revenue they think comes from bikers, runners & hikers, especially on a sunny day.

Dec. 17, 2020, 3:15 p.m.
Posts: 16661
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Black Bear, Raven, Seymour's ...


 Last edited by: KenN on Dec. 17, 2020, 3:15 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 17, 2020, 4:28 p.m.
Posts: 447
Joined: Nov. 25, 2013

COVID is skewing that mindset - people are going directly from home to/from the trails. This is a temporary situation that I hope is seen as such.

Dec. 17, 2020, 6:36 p.m.
Posts: 196
Joined: May 13, 2005

Love it when people pull numbers out of their bungholes - mayors opinion?

We grovel to build trails, get funding for trails, and some hick-town in ass-truck-nowhere gets $12million. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-testing-out-new-zealands-new-12-million-trail.html


 Last edited by: blacksheep on Dec. 17, 2020, 6:37 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 17, 2020, 7:10 p.m.
Posts: 1781
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Posted by: PaulB

They should ask Bean Around The World, Spirits of Seymour, A&W, Husky, Deep Cove Brewing, Bridge Brewing, Wildeye, United Strangers, Honey's, Deep Cove Pizza, etc. how much of their weekend revenue they think comes from bikers, runners & hikers, especially on a sunny day.

I would have thought the same thing. Whatever study was done said the opposite. Have to say surprising.

Dec. 17, 2020, 7:22 p.m.
Posts: 1532
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: blacksheep

Love it when people pull numbers out of their bungholes - mayors opinion?

We grovel to build trails, get funding for trails, and some hick-town in ass-truck-nowhere gets $12million. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-testing-out-new-zealands-new-12-million-trail.html

Maybe knowing the story behind the trail would help you understand why it was funded.

Dec. 18, 2020, 11:09 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug. 16, 2018

the ARSS process on Fromme in the mid-2000s had a pre-determined outcome. DNV was able to get a consultant to put in supposed environmental reasons to shut down the trails that DNV had already identified for closure. anyone who was highly involved in the process can tell you that.

as others have said, the rationale was the same then as now: save money on trail maintenance and reduce liability by trotting out environmental reasons. i'm told that some of those policy makers from the Fromme ARSS process time period have moved on, and it might not be so bad now, but i guess we'll see.

those in power within DNV have consistently demonstrated that they only care about mountain biking where it hits their financials and liability. things would be much worse without the years of community support/involvement and pro-MTB councilors like Mr.Bond.

prepare for the worst people.


 Last edited by: oldmanbuilder on Dec. 18, 2020, 11:09 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 18, 2020, 12:03 p.m.
Posts: 196
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: blacksheep

Love it when people pull numbers out of their bungholes - mayors opinion?

We grovel to build trails, get funding for trails, and some hick-town in ass-truck-nowhere gets $12million. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-testing-out-new-zealands-new-12-million-trail.html

Maybe knowing the story behind the trail would help you understand why it was funded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_River_Mine_disaster

Dec. 18, 2020, 1:27 p.m.
Posts: 1669
Joined: July 11, 2014

I watched the livestream and agree there was some reason for positive take-aways and really appreciate Steve Jones and Cooper speaking up, as well as Matthew Bond and one of the other councilors. From the way the DNV staffer who gave the presentation was speaking, it definitely sounds like they are trying to setup environmental concerns and the idea of closing trails before actually doing the work. I don't live in DNV but did send an email on Monday afternoon and had responses from Jordan, Louise and Matthew within an hour, pretty cool to see. I think they said they received 189 emails over the weekend from mountain bikers. My perspective was that trail building in DNV has been painfully slow compared to other municipalities in BC, mtn biking is a growing and expensive support so there is economic value to be generated, North Shore is seen somewhat as a relic for tourists now, local use is growing and crowding is happening, building will happen regardless etc.

What's the story on the freeride trail built around Deep Cove that supposedly involved falling a significant number of live trees (firs or cedars I forget). Hearing that was surprising and kind of doubt it? Really, trail builders are falling significant trees by hand? And the trailbuilder had to participate in remedial justice process...


 Last edited by: grambo on Dec. 18, 2020, 1:29 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 18, 2020, 11:09 p.m.
Posts: 447
Joined: Nov. 25, 2013

Posted by: grambo

What's the story on the freeride trail built around Deep Cove that supposedly involved falling a significant number of live trees (firs or cedars I forget). Hearing that was surprising and kind of doubt it? Really, trail builders are falling significant trees by hand? And the trailbuilder had to participate in remedial justice process...

I found this concerning aswell and was surprised that it had even occurred. The unfortunate reality is that it only takes one or two rogue builders that don't understand policy or recognize potential impact to the environment to screw things up for everyone else...but if more trails were allowed to be built, then perhaps rogue builders would not do their own thing. Tis a self-perpetuating cycle that in my view works better with allowing for more building. Look at other municipalities where building is more frequent/easy/common...they have less illegal trails - go figure.

Wait wait, we are talking politics, logic doesn't always compute.

Dec. 19, 2020, 9:03 a.m.
Posts: 254
Joined: March 14, 2017

apparently no live trees were actually cut so I think DNV is posturing that anything new is bad....  it's "unsanctioned" and not illegal trails.  Everything was unsanctioned at some point.

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