Could a full length flowy jump and berm trail be build on the North Shore?

As a relative newbie to riding the North Shore, I'm gradually getting better at riding the gnar and even starting to like some of it (Ned's is my current favorite, mainly because it spanks me the least but maybe that's just because it's mainly rocks and not roots or skinnies.)

However I miss that the North Shore does not have intermediate jump / flow trails like Half / Full Nelson in Squamish and U-Line (Unemployment Line) in Bellingham. The closest we have is the awesome but short Boogie Nights which has no real way to lap it without having to ride Boogieman or Pangor first. Is this because of local traditions, or local environment (not enough of the right type of soil / too much rain and too steep terrain), because of concerns of the land owners or just because it hasn't been done yet?

I know there are some very strong opinions on topics like this but I hope everyone can all keep this civil. I'm not actually trying to be a troll!:argue: I just want to know if it could ever happen, why or why not, and if it ever has been considered or talked about at NSMBA meetings.

Bobsled and Expresso and pretty flowy. Upper Dales as well. I see lots of people hiking up to Boogie Nights from the bottom.

there are a lot of reasons why there's no trail like this including all of the ones you suggested. i'd say one of the prime reasons is tradition as you put it or it was just the flavour of riding at the time the network developed. i'd guess that flow/jump/berm style trail really weren't on the radar when people started riding the shore. another reason is the topography and the places where it could go (ie not too steep) there are roads, creeks and power lines to cross. you also have many different land managers to deal with so there really isn't one long swath of land under control of one land manager that is suitable for a long a-line style trail. it's a combination of all these factors and probably a few others that has seen the shore develop the way it is.

personally, as fun as a-line style trails can be i think they're not really mtb trails but bigger versions of bmx tracks for larger bikes.

What Mark said for sure… You also have to remember the cost to create one of the trails is huge. The upkeep is high as well.

Such a trail would be hugely popular and a nice addition to the network. That said, I wouldn't want that trail to come at the expense of an existing trail (like Dales).

How about you just tuck on a road bike down Mountain Highway all the way to the North Shore Winter club?

rep Syncro, JerryRig, DC

Some may disagree, but pretty much the least ridden trail by locals in Squamish is Half Nelson. No disrespect to Ted. It was part of a new direction in trails, and the work behind it from all involved was also a real game changer from a trails advocacy stand point. I would beer those guys all day long. However, reality is, that Half Nelson is pretty much the first trail new arrivals want to hit when they get to Squamish but really had a shelf life locally. I'm much happier out on some juicy slabs or SOT and harder to reach stuff, but there is a still an important lesson here.

If everyone comes to Squamish to ride HN, like all the Whistler newbs funnel to A line- then building a similar trail on the North Shore may have a similar effect. You might argue that such a trail should be built to increase the (already significant) draw and profile of the NS, or you might argue that we would be building it for others to ride so why bother. The answer depends on what you want to accomplish.

Also, consider that HN and AL probably produce an disproportionate share of injuries in their respective riding zones. Perhaps its the level of traffic, or perhaps the speed they invite, or the stoke people have when hitting them the first time out. I dunno. But I know enough doctors to know that these trails are bone-breaking vending machines. That's the latest trail style I guess, and the consequence of riding MTBs down new-age pump tracks. I prefer the lower speed yard sale into red rot and dilapidated roots and chunder myself- had some good punctures and contusions, but the breakages have been minimalized. Just another consideration for when we think of what we're asking for. :)

Bobsled and Expresso and pretty flowy. Upper Dales as well. I see lots of people hiking up to Boogie Nights from the bottom.

I love Espresso - a great blend of North Shore style and new school flow. HUGE kudos to Digger for all the work he puts in maintaining this trail; it seems like every time I ride it he is working on it. Their is lots of fun poppy action on Espresso (and more additions recently!) but not really the kind of jumps I am talking about in this case.

Bobsled is a nice warm up / cool down but there really is only one optional jump / drop + the little wood roll / pop.

Upper Dales: no jumps. Am I the only one who finds berms by themselves really boring?

personally, as fun as a-line style trails can be i think they're not really mtb trails but bigger versions of bmx tracks for larger bikes.

I've never ridden A-line or any lift served bike park trail for that matter but from the videos I've seen it's a way faster / straighter / bigger line than what I'm thinking of. Like upper / middle U-Line (Bellingham) or a slightly harder version of Half Nelson (Squamish) I'm thinking an intermediate trail with lots of singles, table tops or not completely committing doubles all mixed up with enough bermed turns to keep rider speeds in control. (I love when doubles are contoured so the one side landing transition forms nearly a full gap jump while if you aim to the other side of the landing you can do a slower / lower / shorter 'huck to flat' or a slight slope without totally casing).

I'm guessing that to keep traffic down to a reasonable level this would have to be on a mountain where you can't shuttle (i.e. Fromme) otherwise all the bro's would come out and destroy all the berms to make their latest video edits:rocker:

[QUOTE=cerealkilla';2920886]rep Syncro, JerryRig, DC

Some may disagree, but pretty much the least ridden trail by locals in Squamish is Half Nelson. No disrespect to Ted. It was part of a new direction in trails, and the work behind it from all involved was also a real game changer from a trails advocacy stand point. I would beer those guys all day long. However, reality is, that Half Nelson is pretty much the first trail new arrivals want to hit when they get to Squamish but really had a shelf life locally. I'm much happier out on some juicy slabs or SOT and harder to reach stuff, but there is a still an important lesson here.

If everyone comes to Squamish to ride HN, like all the Whistler newbs funnel to A line- then building a similar trail on the North Shore may have a similar effect. You might argue that such a trail should be built to increase the (already significant) draw and profile of the NS, or you might argue that we would be building it for others to ride so why bother. The answer depends on what you want to accomplish.

Also, consider that HN and AL probably produce an disproportionate share of injuries in their respective riding zones. Perhaps its the level of traffic, or perhaps the speed they invite, or the stoke people have when hitting them the first time out. I dunno. But I know enough doctors to know that these trails are bone-breaking vending machines. That's the latest trail style I guess, and the consequence of riding MTBs down new-age pump tracks. I prefer the lower speed yard sale into red rot and dilapidated roots and chunder myself- had some good punctures and contusions, but the breakages have been minimalized. Just another consideration for when we think of what we're asking for. :)

Interesting perspective. I would like to know if what you say about lots of serious injuries on Half Nelson is true. I totally believe it for A-Line though.

For myself I know I actually have far fewer wipe outs and injuries on flow / easy jump lines than I do on wet North Shore roots and rocks, but I am super conservative and have not progressed further than hitting anything but the very smallest doubles (partially because there is almost no where to practice them on the North Shore). I think the key to limiting injuries would be to keep the speeds down with lots of turns, and by not putting in any big and fully committing doubles.

[QUOTE=cerealkilla';2920886]rep Syncro, JerryRig, DC

. But I know enough doctors to know that these trails are bone-breaking vending machines. That's the latest trail style I guess, and the consequence of riding MTBs down new-age pump tracks. I prefer the lower speed yard sale into red rot and dilapidated roots and chunder myself- had some good punctures and contusions, but the breakages have been minimalized. Just another consideration for when we think of what we're asking for. :)

Well said
I like to have to pick way through trails, Ive only rode Hn a few times the speeds hn invites are scary at least for me on my 114mm R / 140mm F trail bike.. I just turned 49 and I dont feel so unbreakable any more.

Sadly the those trails are disappearing.

HN serves a very good purpose as a gorb collector and keeps the mountain bike trails quieter for the rest of us 😜

The other issue is land manager buy in and investment on such a trail. MV rebuilt upper Dales to see how people liked that kind of trail. Its been incredibly popular so if any land manager would do it it would probably be Metro Van. They would just need to find the right route. It wouldn't have jumps I would bet.

I don't think DNV would invest in such a trail on Fromme.

If a bike park gets built on Cypress, that might be the place. But you might have to pay to ride it.

How about you just tuck on a road bike down Mountain Highway all the way to the North Shore Winter club?

WIN.

HN serves a very good purpose as a gorb collector and keeps the mountain bike trails quieter for the rest of us ������

That's why we need one on the North Shore so that us poor little gorbies (had to look that one up) can collect there to learn to be awesome bros like you :nerd::fro: The cool thing about being almost 50 is that I couldn't care less about what someone thinks of me as long as I'm having fun.:grinno:

….It wouldn't have jumps I would bet.

I don't think DNV would invest in such a trail on Fromme.

And that's too bad but unfortunately about what I thought. Like I said earlier, I find Upper Dales pretty boring with nothing but berms but obviously there are lots of others who disagree with me on that side as well!

All I can say for all you naysayers is go down to Bellingham and ride some of the flowy and jumpy lines on Galbraith a couple times and tell me you don't come back from every ride with a face ripping grin. (My favorite link up was Evolution (Evo), Unemployment Line (U-Line) and Atomic Dog, but there are piles of other options.)

I love the challenge of the North Shore and feel super lucky to live here but variety is the spice of life. It would be nice to ride some gnar on Saturday and some pump, jump, pop and flow on Sunday!