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CBC - what’s happening?

Nov. 25, 2020, 3:30 p.m.
Posts: 169
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

I received this in an update e-mail from Metro Van this morning.  It's interesting and disconcerting that there is no mention of NSMBA involvement in this trail planning, I wonder why?

LSCR East Area Trails

Metro Vancouver is continuing to implement recommendations from the 2018 Trails Strategic Plan. This month, we have begun working with LEES+Associates and IMBA (International Mountain Biking Association) Canada to specify upgrades for CBC and Cabin trails. Like all trail projects in the LSCR, this work aims to minimize impacts to sensitive ecosystem areas, such as wetlands and old growth forest stands. We also recognize there is room for improvements to the user experience for mountain bikers in particular, and will be working to retain the character of classic trails while making them appealing for contemporary riders. We plan to continue to focus resources on the Mt. Seymour area of our trail network in the coming years. Make sure to watch this newsletter for future updates and ways to participate!

Nov. 25, 2020, 6:33 p.m.
Posts: 126
Joined: Feb. 8, 2016

Posted by: skooks

I received this in an update e-mail from Metro Van this morning.  It's interesting and disconcerting that there is no mention of NSMBA involvement in this trail planning, I wonder why?

LSCR East Area Trails

Metro Vancouver is continuing to implement recommendations from the 2018 Trails Strategic Plan. This month, we have begun working with LEES+Associates and IMBA (International Mountain Biking Association) Canada to specify upgrades for CBC and Cabin trails. Like all trail projects in the LSCR, this work aims to minimize impacts to sensitive ecosystem areas, such as wetlands and old growth forest stands. We also recognize there is room for improvements to the user experience for mountain bikers in particular, and will be working to retain the character of classic trails while making them appealing for contemporary riders. We plan to continue to focus resources on the Mt. Seymour area of our trail network in the coming years. Make sure to watch this newsletter for future updates and ways to participate!

FML if they're going to redevelop the rest of CBC into a green flow trail like they did with that one section. Also FML if they touch Cabin at all.

Nov. 25, 2020, 9:54 p.m.
Posts: 17927
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Virtual AGM is tomorrow...    

https://nsmba.ca

Nov. 26, 2020, 4:17 a.m.
Posts: 1143
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

I’ll bet IMBA wants to pave it.

Nov. 26, 2020, 9:17 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: April 27, 2018

I also received the email from Metro Van about the updates to trails on Seymour. I’m concerned about the changes to CBC and Cabin trail. The historic preference of Metro Van is for paved trails, with no features, jumps, or drops (much like upper Dales Trail), and a lack of engagement with the community.

I realize that these trail need repair and maintenance since they were built to different standards, different environmental rules, and have eroded badly. Work was needed over the past 5 to 10 years, but from my understanding wasn’t allowed by Metro Van?

I’m concerned that Metro Van has not looped the NSMBA in about the updates, instead has worked with IMBA (who don’t have the same prescence in North Vancouver). The NSMBA leverages some of the best builders in the country, volunteer labour, and engages the community (both members and non-members). It seems like Metro Van could have achieved more by looping in the NSMBA, working with all of the major North Shore landowners, and developing a more comprehensive trail plan (Metro Van’s trail plan is disappointing).

It would be great to find out more about what Metro Van is planning and provide some feedback for the concerns. I have emailed the general email for LSCR, LSCR@metrovancouver.org, but it is as if the emails go into a black hole, i.e. you never hear back.

Would be nice to get input from NSMBA; on how the NSMBA has been involved in the project and what some next steps might be to get more involved in Metro Vancouver’s trail planning?

Nov. 26, 2020, 9:51 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: April 27, 2018

I had a re-read of Metro Vancouver's Strategic Trails Plan (http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/parks/ParksPublications/LSCRTrailsStrategicPlan.pdf). Apparently, they have their eye on lower Dales too...From the plan:

Dale’s Trail Improvements:

Consider upgrading lower sections to flow better with

section 1 of Dale’s to provide a cohesive user experience

from top to bottom. Upgrade the Mushroom Lot Access trail

to provide a safe exit point from the more challenging

section of Dale’s trail and to enhance the connection

between the LSCR and CMHC.

Nov. 26, 2020, 10:38 a.m.
Posts: 1384
Joined: Dec. 4, 2002

Sweco 480 fumes coming your way soon...

Nov. 26, 2020, 2:10 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: March 2, 2017

Make sure you vote at the NSMBA AGM tonight. Lot's of newbies on the ticket who appear to be trail paving advocates as per their vision statements.

Nov. 26, 2020, 5 p.m.
Posts: 57
Joined: May 11, 2017

Posted by: icullis

I had a re-read of Metro Vancouver's Strategic Trails Plan (http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/parks/ParksPublications/LSCRTrailsStrategicPlan.pdf). Apparently, they have their eye on lower Dales too...From the plan:

Dale’s Trail Improvements:

Consider upgrading lower sections to flow better with

section 1 of Dale’s to provide a cohesive user experience

from top to bottom. Upgrade the Mushroom Lot Access trail

to provide a safe exit point from the more challenging

section of Dale’s trail and to enhance the connection

between the LSCR and CMHC.

This is terrifying. Unless they are talking about getting rid of the crappy flow trail at the top. Dales is the last true sanctioned challenge on Seymour and it would be a major loss the the riding experience for that to have major changes made to it.

Nov. 26, 2020, 5:26 p.m.
Posts: 135
Joined: May 13, 2014

Posted by: MaxRockatansky

Posted by: icullis

I had a re-read of Metro Vancouver's Strategic Trails Plan (http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/parks/ParksPublications/LSCRTrailsStrategicPlan.pdf). Apparently, they have their eye on lower Dales too...From the plan:

Dale’s Trail Improvements:

Consider upgrading lower sections to flow better with

section 1 of Dale’s to provide a cohesive user experience

from top to bottom. Upgrade the Mushroom Lot Access trail

to provide a safe exit point from the more challenging

section of Dale’s trail and to enhance the connection

between the LSCR and CMHC.

This is terrifying. Unless they are talking about getting rid of the crappy flow trail at the top. Dales is the last true sanctioned challenge on Seymour and it would be a major loss the the riding experience for that to have major changes made to it.

No.  Metro is about limiting liability and the crappy flow start is only the start.  It will see the rest of Dale's become this and removal of the jank in keeping with the low liability mandate.  As per Neds and CBC.   The best hope is they do nothing at all and it stays as is, but if anything is done it will not be good.

Nov. 26, 2020, 5:32 p.m.
Posts: 1607
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

A smoothed out Lower Dale's would suck. It's at the upper end of what I'm comfortable riding, but I always enjoy it, especially on the few occaisons I manage to clean it.


 Last edited by: PaulB on Nov. 26, 2020, 5:33 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Nov. 26, 2020, 5:38 p.m.
Posts: 644
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

It's slick as heck right now. I had a wicked slip off the first bridge on Dale's yesterday - the first bridge after the machined berms. The subsequent root section was crazy slippery too. Head's up!

Nov. 26, 2020, 6:18 p.m.
Posts: 412
Joined: Nov. 25, 2013

I'd like both - keep the original Dale's and create a new/smoother line that is more "friendly" to newer riders...and with a new/fun name.

Given that I ride with my son a fair bit now, creating a trail that bridges JD to Severed/Forever/Pangor skill gap would be awesome.


 Last edited by: Taz123 on Nov. 26, 2020, 6:18 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Nov. 26, 2020, 7:15 p.m.
Posts: 304
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Posted by: MaxRockatansky

Posted by: icullis

I had a re-read of Metro Vancouver's Strategic Trails Plan (http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/parks/ParksPublications/LSCRTrailsStrategicPlan.pdf). Apparently, they have their eye on lower Dales too...From the plan:

Dale’s Trail Improvements:

Consider upgrading lower sections to flow better with

section 1 of Dale’s to provide a cohesive user experience

from top to bottom. Upgrade the Mushroom Lot Access trail

to provide a safe exit point from the more challenging

section of Dale’s trail and to enhance the connection

between the LSCR and CMHC.

This is terrifying. Unless they are talking about getting rid of the crappy flow trail at the top. Dales is the last true sanctioned challenge on Seymour and it would be a major loss the the riding experience for that to have major changes made to it.

Totally agree. Why smooth out a trail? If they want more sidewalks in the forest, just make some FFS.

Especially with trails that far up the hill. The vast majority of people riding around that far up are not crying for more flow trails. 

I say keep paving stuff like bridal and other traverse type trails. That's where most newbies are lurking and it also makes get back across the mountain to climb again more efficient for more advanced riders. Win-win.

If they kill Dale's I will be super fucking sad. 

At this rate they will just end up with a shit ton of rogue trails on their hands because if the options are taken away, I really think people will build and explore more. Which is maybe not a bad thing but it's certainly counter to what they're trying to achieve by flattening existing trails. 

Just tone deaf and zero foresight.

Nov. 26, 2020, 8:28 p.m.
Posts: 374
Joined: July 8, 2005

As the current permitted builder on Dale's, there's been no recent communication from Metro on any of those suggested changes to Dale's... my goal is to preserve the current technical challenge on lower Dale's, add back some wood stunts if Metro permits, and keep up with other regular maintenance (drain clearing, etc....).

But Metro has a habit of not telling us what's going on....

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