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Can you use Trailforks and keep rides from appearing on the Heat Map by marking as private...

May 12, 2021, 2:27 p.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: Ddean

Trail runners are worst for this because they dont see the downside of broadcasting the trail location (theyre just running around) and they love Strava more than running. Im sure most of them would become full time swimmers if Strava went swimming only.

I know trail runners who would say the same about mountain bikers. 

Regards,

A long time trail runner and an even longer time mountain biker who does not use any GPS device.

May 12, 2021, 3:48 p.m.
Posts: 1730
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

May 12, 2021, 10:22 p.m.
Posts: 195
Joined: Sept. 11, 2008

Regarding Trailforks.

If a ridelog is set to "private", it is not included in heatmap.
If a ridelog is set to "Hide GPS & Trails Ridden", it is not included in heatmap.
If a ridelog detects you rode a "hidden" trail your ride will be auto-flagged as "sensitive" and it is not included in heatmap.
If a ridelog goes within a personal privacy zone, it is not included in heatmap.

If you don't use the Trailforks app to record a ride and instead have Garmin or Strava linked, both have a default setting for imported rides which can be toggled to private if you wish.
https://www.trailforks.com/help/view/26/

Generating global heatmaps is very resource intensive, they are heavily cached once generated. So if you edit old ridelogs to be private, they won't immediately be removed from the heatmap. It will take time before that region of the heatmap is re-generated, sometimes months. With additional Trailforks resources, work is being done to reduce the update time. It's the same delay with rides being added though, so if you forget to make a ride private, it won't be added until the heatmap is updated, so you have plenty of time to change that setting after saving.

There are more features than just the heatmap a ridelog will be excluded from if any of the above are true, like helping determine the most popular routes in an area, or viewing rides matching a trail.


 Last edited by: canadaka on May 13, 2021, 9:49 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 12, 2021, 10:44 p.m.
Posts: 1730
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

^^^

So what if those things aren't done then? It seems Trailforks does not automatically keep unsanctioned or illegal trails off the heat map. It seems to do that for some areas (eg Darkside) but not all.

May 13, 2021, 9:41 a.m.
Posts: 195
Joined: Sept. 11, 2008

For Trailforks to automatically flag a users ride as "sensitive", the unsanctioned or illegal trail has to actually be privately mapped on Trailforks and designated as "hidden". So if it's not in the system, there is nothing we can do. And because of the nature of GPS inaccuracy, especially in the woods on shitty phones, the GPS tracks sometimes are not within the margins to "match" a trail.

For areas that are separated and not intermixed with sanctioned trails, like several you can probably think of on the Shore. Trailforks can mark the entire region as "hidden" and all rides that intersect the polygon of that hidden region are excluded from the heatmap. But automated systems can't catch everything, but at least we try unlike other apps. 

If riders are making their sensitive rides public with no discretion, this is ultimately an education and culture problem. Even if automated systems worked 100% of the time, their data would still be public on other platforms.

May 13, 2021, 9:53 a.m.
Posts: 1730
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Makes sense and kind of what I thought. 

Your education/culture comment is spot on imo and there needs to be way more effort in this area, especially from bike mfgr's. I think as a whole the bike industry has failed big time in terms of education and developing culture and they need to take responsibility.

May 13, 2021, 1:27 p.m.
Posts: 1209
Joined: May 4, 2006

@Canadaka

Re: intermixed areas.

How small/granular do the polygons have to be?

If you look at Boundary trail on the east side of Mt Seymour road (clearly visible on Open Street Maps before anyone gets upset!), you can clearly see it on the Trailforks heatmap as it's in the same area as a legal trail.

Looking at the Land Ownership layer, the whole of Seymour is one big polygon, so I presume that's why it shows up.

Can the polygons be sub-divided in sensitive areas?

There also seems to be a lack of land ownership polygons for other areas of the NS (e.g. Metro Van/LSCR) . Do you only have access to BC Parks polygons? If so, why?

May 13, 2021, 1:30 p.m.
Posts: 1209
Joined: May 4, 2006

Posted by: syncro

I think as a whole the bike industry has failed big time in terms of education and developing culture and they need to take responsibility.

I don't think that's ever likely to happen! Would be nice if bike manufacturers/distributers arranged for complimentary first year membership of the local trail association for the purchaser of new bikes via the LBS though.

Its funny when you dig deep into Strava and you see the same names of people you think should know better yet they are pushing the top segment times on unsanctioned trails...


 Last edited by: SixZeroSixOne on May 13, 2021, 1:45 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 26, 2021, 8:41 a.m.
Posts: 391
Joined: Aug. 10, 2012

Posted by: syncro

Makes sense and kind of what I thought.

Your education/culture comment is spot on imo and there needs to be way more effort in this area, especially from bike mfgr's. I think as a whole the bike industry has failed big time in terms of education and developing culture and they need to take responsibility.

This couldn't have been more clearly illustrated over this past weekend when a I saw an IG post from a pro rider showing video of the entrance to a non-sanctioned trail on the North Shore. He has over 35K followers...he even tagged the video #Strava. He also posted several image showing his Strava route and the fact the and his buddies had done a version of the Triple...which(of course) includes Fromme. He posted on Sunday. The ride was on Saturday....when Fromme was closed all weekend due to the bear presence.

I sent him a DM to let him know the video was not cool. His response was "the trail is already on Strava". I asked about the Fromme trail closure. No response.

I realise people are going to duck ropes, and ride where they shouldn't...but for an industry pro that is meant to be a standard bearer and example to other riders/followers to do it so openly and unapologetically is a slap in the face to the local riding community and all those that work hard to keep access to existing trails and lobby for possible future trails.

The post was still up as of yesterday, so clearly, the sponsors (Rocky Mountain, Fat Tire, etc...) have no issue with this...or don't pay attention to the message their riders are putting out there.


 Last edited by: mudrunner on May 26, 2021, 8:43 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spelling and punctuation...I also ended a sentence in a preposition!
May 26, 2021, 10:48 a.m.
Posts: 1730
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Then out the rider and their sponsors if they're not willing to play nice.

Or send me a pm


 Last edited by: syncro on May 26, 2021, 11:21 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 26, 2021, 11:31 a.m.
Posts: 2059
Joined: April 25, 2003

The sponsors don't care, particularly the local ones with "cred".

The market rewards this behaviour so they'll keep it up until it doesn't.

May 26, 2021, 11:41 a.m.
Posts: 1730
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: tashi

The sponsors don't care, particularly the local ones with "cred".

The market rewards this behaviour so they'll keep it up until it doesn't.

That's were "we" come in. We need to make it so it isn't rewarded, so it's not cool. If enough people object then the sponsors might pay attention. While our current media age is fraught with issues, it also has the power to bring poor behaviour to heel.

May 26, 2021, 11:47 a.m.
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sept. 30, 2006

I believe his offending IG posts have now been removed? Perhaps someone out there is listening.

May 26, 2021, 11:55 a.m.
Posts: 48
Joined: March 1, 2017

Posted by: shoreboy

I believe his offending IG posts have now been removed? Perhaps someone out there is listening.

It was posted as a 'story,' which are temporary as far as I understand.  There is a new story posted now, so the one of their triple is gone.

May 26, 2021, 12:29 p.m.
Posts: 2059
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: tashi

The sponsors don't care, particularly the local ones with "cred".

The market rewards this behaviour so they'll keep it up until it doesn't.

That's were "we" come in. We need to make it so it isn't rewarded, so it's not cool. If enough people object then the sponsors might pay attention. While our current media age is fraught with issues, it also has the power to bring poor behaviour to heel.

And yet, with all the people on this board that know who he and the company are they still haven’t been named. 

Looks like the Thin Bro Line is holding up.

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