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"Buckin Hell“ trail run race. Down empress bypass?

July 31, 2022, 11:03 a.m.
Posts: 7
Joined: April 4, 2022

Posted by: thaaad

Speaking of tape, am I the only one who is infuriated when I see plastic tagging from old races? How is this not considered littering? As much as I love races the organizers should 100% be liable for removing ALL of the tape from ALL of the races they put on.

It makes me so pissed off when I see race tape from old races that is very obviously weeks old. This isn't to say that it's MTB races for sure but I can't believe people just abandon their litter / tags in the woods.

Literally the 3rd google result...

https://www.nhbs.com/biodegradable-marking-tape

100% agreed. I'm a forester and try to always make sure someone gets the tape down at the end of a project. I did once work on a project in Alberta where we used that biodegradable tape, big series of cutblocks we spent a few days laying out. Next year we had to come back to check on it before harvesting....deer had eaten it all!!! You could see the teeth scratches on the trees. Had to laugh, but having to redo all that work almost made us cry.

July 31, 2022, 12:45 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: July 31, 2022

I suspect that they have sent emails over to metro in the past but it is no shocker that the ball gets dropped

July 31, 2022, 1:33 p.m.
Posts: 1387
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Not the shore but a little while back, a month or so, a FV running club closed Sumas on a Saturday. The whole mountain! Got to the gate and the organizers were turning everyone around. No notice on FB or FVMBA page. It would seem no one but the local running club knew. Huge wtf. How does one user group get to close a whole mountain. Surely they didn’t use every trail on the hill.

Aug. 1, 2022, 7:58 a.m.
Posts: 36
Joined: July 16, 2020

Posted by: FLATCH

Not the shore but a little while back, a month or so, a FV running club closed Sumas on a Saturday. The whole mountain! Got to the gate and the organizers were turning everyone around. No notice on FB or FVMBA page. It would seem no one but the local running club knew. Huge wtf. How does one user group get to close a whole mountain. Surely they didn’t use every trail on the hill.

No idea how FV works but I've been involved in many trail races between north shore and whistler and areas have never been closed. Notices are also usually posted a week before and trail orgs are alerted and also send out info to user groups.

Aug. 1, 2022, 9:03 a.m.
Posts: 462
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: meloroast

Posted by: FLATCH

Not the shore but a little while back, a month or so, a FV running club closed Sumas on a Saturday. The whole mountain! Got to the gate and the organizers were turning everyone around. No notice on FB or FVMBA page. It would seem no one but the local running club knew. Huge wtf. How does one user group get to close a whole mountain. Surely they didn’t use every trail on the hill.

No idea how FV works but I've been involved in many trail races between north shore and whistler and areas have never been closed. Notices are also usually posted a week before and trail orgs are alerted and also send out info to user groups.

Similar here in Whistler. The ultra marathon trail runs are marked ahed of time with notices posted about timing of the events. Plus (big plus) the running club that organized the event also went into the Jake/Jane trails and buffed them up big time. They also cleared another trail that’s no longer on the maps.

Aug. 3, 2022, 3:08 p.m.
Posts: 12
Joined: Sept. 1, 2010

I was just starting Severed and I let what I think were the four leaders by, gave them a few minutes then started. Later I passed four more runners while I was headed down Empress Bypass. It was all good with the runners stepping aside and everyone saying thanks etc. What did kinda piss me off was that the organizers had set up their tent right where Old Buck meets the parking lot, so you had to dismount and thread your way through the crowd. All in all, not such a big deal.

Aug. 4, 2022, 6:38 p.m.
Posts: 411
Joined: July 8, 2005

Posted by: FLATCH

Not the shore but a little while back, a month or so, a FV running club closed Sumas on a Saturday. The whole mountain! Got to the gate and the organizers were turning everyone around. No notice on FB or FVMBA page. It would seem no one but the local running club knew. Huge wtf. How does one user group get to close a whole mountain. Surely they didn’t use every trail on the hill.

Yes, it was posted on FVMBA social channels.

Different land manager for Sumas than for most of the Shore and different policies for events. For Sumas it's a Section 16 through Rec Sites & Trails as well as a permit from Forestry Engineering for road use and to close the road.

Run for Water has been on for quite a few years and donates a chunk of money back to FVMBA and comes out to FVMBA trail days.

Aug. 4, 2022, 6:47 p.m.
Posts: 411
Joined: July 8, 2005

Posted by: syncro

My guess is that is that the lack of notification has a lot to do with Metro. IMHO I don't have a problem with the route IF Metro and race organizers do proper publication/notification weeks before the event stating that the race will be taking place blah blah blah. I'd even have no problem with Metro stating on Date XYZZ trails ABCD will be closed to bike traffic for a foot race if good notification is given. 

I don't know if Metro realizes it or not, but their actions sometimes send the message that they do not care about the needs of the mtb community at all or that we are a very low priority for them. Considering the demographics of the mtb community, Metro should be paying much closer attention to the mtb segment of their user base.

Metro is only one of the Land Managers the race organizers would've need to get an event permit from.

Empress Bypass is not managed by Metro, but goes through both DNV & BC Parks.

Really it's up to the race organizers not the land managers to get the word out.  And this should include reaching out to various users groups & trail orgs and getting them to help spread the word. Could include posting a Trailforks report for the trails in the race indicating to expect racers on the trail.

Aug. 4, 2022, 7:19 p.m.
Posts: 2378
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Yeah was thinking about the upper trails, and yes Empress Bypass is Parks/DNV. My thinking on the lack of notification is the land managers didn't stipulate so it didn't get done. Like you say there are plenty of options for getting the word out, but it seems the only people who knew were the race organizers. It was probably a small inconvenience for most people, but the lack of notification to the mtb community who are the primary/only users on a bunch of the trails the race used speaks volumes about how we are regarded. This is especially so in light of the fact that the majority of trail work is volunteer driven by the mtb community. 

I'll edit my original post to reflect DNV

Aug. 6, 2022, 7:33 a.m.
Posts: 1387
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: mudhoney

Posted by: FLATCH

Not the shore but a little while back, a month or so, a FV running club closed Sumas on a Saturday. The whole mountain! Got to the gate and the organizers were turning everyone around. No notice on FB or FVMBA page. It would seem no one but the local running club knew. Huge wtf. How does one user group get to close a whole mountain. Surely they didn’t use every trail on the hill.

Yes, it was posted on FVMBA social channels.

Different land manager for Sumas than for most of the Shore and different policies for events. For Sumas it's a Section 16 through Rec Sites & Trails as well as a permit from Forestry Engineering for road use and to close the road.

Run for Water has been on for quite a few years and donates a chunk of money back to FVMBA and comes out to FVMBA trail days.

Strange, as I got nothing on my news feed. It was still a WTF moment.

Aug. 6, 2022, 8:11 a.m.
Posts: 18274
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: mudhoney

Posted by: FLATCH

Yes, it was posted on FVMBA social channels.

Strange, as I got nothing on my news feed. It was still a WTF moment.

Like @fvmba more often?  Next Cultus running race date is Oct 15  

https://www.instagram.com/p/CeFYy0OhWlA/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

https://www.instagram.com/p/CewMgL4Ly5e/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=


 Last edited by: heckler on Aug. 6, 2022, 8:13 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Aug. 6, 2022, 8:16 a.m.
Posts: 18274
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

And hell, have you all filled in your annual NSMBA user survey yet? Thats where feedback is heard and analyzed.  Not here  

https://www.instagram.com/p/CgxFXeWppG-/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

https://nsmba.ca/fill-out-our-2022-annual-survey-win-some-prizes/


 Last edited by: heckler on Aug. 6, 2022, 8:18 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Aug. 6, 2022, 9:04 a.m.
Posts: 2378
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: heckler

And hell, have you all filled in your annual NSMBA user survey yet? Thats where feedback is heard and analyzed.  Not here  

https://www.instagram.com/p/CgxFXeWppG-/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

https://nsmba.ca/fill-out-our-2022-annual-survey-win-some-prizes/

IMHO the onus is on org's to interact with people and go to them, not the other way around. Yes, riders should be taking responsibility to get involved, but unfortunately that doesn't happen enough. It's kind of like the shopping cart analogy, but at the end of the day the people who care the most are the ones who do the heavy lifting which is why it totally makes sense to have paid administrators with the trail orgs. And part of that money HAS to be coming from govt as trail orgs take up so much of the work that govt should be doing.

Aug. 6, 2022, 1:01 p.m.
Posts: 18274
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

so, you want the North Shore MBA to hold events and meetings in central Burnaby?

Aug. 6, 2022, 1:20 p.m.
Posts: 2378
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: heckler

so, you want the North Shore MBA to hold events and meetings in central Burnaby?

Yes, they should show up at my front door with drinks and food any time there is any sort of news relating to the trails. 

I meant "go to them" in the proverbial sense, not the literal sense. An org can interact with their constituents without going to where they live via things like email, social etc - but of course you know this. Heck even the old way of communication on message boards would be useful. Not sure if snail mail is worth it tho. So for example the info in this thread, your post about the survey and the other thread about the strategic plan - all of that should be coming from the NSMBA, not randomly from some forum member who happens to be involved with the NSMBA.  I know they have or have had in the past a director of social media or something similar which nowadays is a very important position. That channel of info should be visible everywhere.

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