"Buckin Hell“ trail run race. Down empress bypass?

Not sure if anyone saw this shit show today on Seymour. I felt bad for the runners. They actually sent them down empress bypass on a Saturday. 

They were all trying to not get splattered by bikers. Bikers were trying to not splatter runners. 

All around just a poorly considered route choice by the organizers, in my opinion, especially since there is a hiking only trail as well as old buck running parallel. Just why? 

I sent a (as polite as I could) note to the organizers giving them some feedback on this. 

I forgot to mention it in my note but aside from it just not being enjoyable for anyone l, including this route in a rail run starts to imply that this trail is in general a good option for trail running, which it obviously is not. 

Anyways if you experienced this, I'd encourage anyone who feels inclined to send a polite/respectful note of feedback to the organizers.

The trail map of the full race says all sorts of stupid, not just Empress Bypass.

https://trailrunning.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2022-BH35K-Map-2.jpg

Yeah they were also coming down severed which I definitely thought was borderline, but I figured there was a multi-use argument in there somewhere and would have given that a pass, but empress bypass is pure stupid IMO.

My guess is that is that the lack of notification has something to do with Metro, DNV and BC Parks not stipulating early notification is necessary. IMHO I don't have a problem with the route IF the land managers and race organizers do proper publication/notification weeks before the event stating that the race will be taking place blah blah blah. I'd even have no problem with them stating on Date XYZZ trails ABCD will be closed to bike traffic for a foot race if good notification is given.

I don't know if the peopl involved realize it or not, but their actions sometimes send the message that they do not care about the needs of the mtb community at all or that we are a very low priority for them. Considering the demographics of the mtb community, they should be paying much closer attention to the mtb segment of their user base.

Marking as closed to bikes would be even better, for the case of severed. I really have no problem there as there's plenty of ways down.

Empress bypass I have a problem with because aside from it being high speed, other than riding empress which is above a lot of riders' paygrade, there's really no other way back down the lot other than coasting down old buck, which causes other problems. Where as they have fern gully right there which is hike only, so it just seems totally unnecessary which is really the maddening part for me personally.

A couple days ago there was a bike race that dumped out just before Empress and continued on Bridle.  The person giving the bikers direction was telling pedestrians on Bridle to make way for bikers, even though bikers should yield.  No signage anywhere that a race was on, just bikers racing down the middle of the trail.  Dumb.

And pedestrians shouldn't be on the bypass.  A new trail pedestrian was built a couple years ago to connect Bridle to near Old Buck parking lot.

They likely should have just closed the trails. I'm not sure what kind of coordination an event organizer has with the land managers but closing some trails for a single day wouldn't have been the end of the world. My wife was marshalling up on Corkscrew and said biker/runner interactions were all good in her area. There was a 35k (the map that syncro posted) and a 50k route as well that went over to the dark side. 450 racers in this event.

Both the race organizers and the local mtb association have statements about this.   

That said, Empress Bypass is specifically signed as closed by Landmanager DNV to hiking (and by extension trail-running), for safety reasons stated here, and there is a very nice parallel hiking only alternative.  Looking at the age-old map used, the race organizers may not even know about Fern Gulley hiking only. If anyone's in touch with them, let them know Trailforks exists. https://www.trailforks.com/trails/fern-gully-147586/

https://nsmba.ca/trailsforall/

While the core of what we do is to build, maintain and advocate for trails, as an organization that serves and represents many we have the responsibility to continually lead in a direction towards an inclusive and welcoming network for everyone. Mountain biking culture has evolved greatly since its inception with more and more voices bringing new perspectives and experiences to the sport. However, there are still voices that remain underrepresented in our community, so we are educating ourselves on the inequalities that exist and taking active steps to create the change we want to see. 

Those of us who use the trails, live in Metro Vancouver and ride a mountain bike are very privileged to do so. By acknowledging this privilege and understanding how we as an association can support the inclusion of diversity we will learn and grow together so that everyone feels they have a space on the trails.

https://trailrunning.ca/event-rules/

Be kind to other runners. Be kind to other trail users. The trails are not closed for our events, so you’ll always be sharing the trails with other people. Please play nice at all times and respect the fact that even a single complaint from someone not associated with our event can have permitting consequences for future years.

Both the race organizers and the local mtb association have statements about this.   

That said, Empress Bypass is specifically signed as closed by Landmanager DNV to hiking (and by extension trail-running), for safety reasons stated here, and there is a very nice parallel hiking only alternative. Looking at the age-old map used, the race organizers may not even know about Fern Gulley hiking only. If anyone's in touch with them, let them know Trailforks exists.

That's the crux of it.

Got a response back, totally reasonable. 

Thank you so much for the feedback and we do appreciate it. Empress was part of the original course from a few years ago and we will be looking to re-route for the very reasons you shared. 

All the best!

Sounds like maybe the last time they held this race at Seymour was before empress bypass had been re-done, makes sense.

Will shoot them a link to fern gully on trailforks.

I've participated in another one of their foot races before (Survival of the Fittest in Squamish) and I found the race organizers very helpful and accommodating.  It was arguable one of the better organized running races I've done - including Vancouver and Victoria Marathons.

I'm not surprised they sent a reply like that to Kenny, indicating they had learned from their mistake.

The organizer, Coast Mountain Trail Running, is an NSMBA sponsor, so I expect they are more than willing to learn from community feedback.

Posted by: switch

A couple days ago there was a bike race that dumped out just before Empress and continued on Bridle.  The person giving the bikers direction was telling pedestrians on Bridle to make way for bikers, even though bikers should yield.  No signage anywhere that a race was on, just bikers racing down the middle of the trail.  Dumb.

And pedestrians shouldn't be on the bypass.  A new trail pedestrian was built a couple years ago to connect Bridle to near Old Buck parking lot.

What bike race was that?  I saw a bunch of tape up on Pangor last Wednesday, but had not heard of any mtn bike races other than Thursday Fivers

Speaking of tape, am I the only one who is infuriated when I see plastic tagging from old races? How is this not considered littering? As much as I love races the organizers should 100% be liable for removing ALL of the tape from ALL of the races they put on.

It makes me so pissed off when I see race tape from old races that is very obviously weeks old. This isn't to say that it's MTB races for sure but I can't believe people just abandon their litter / tags in the woods.

Literally the 3rd google result...

https://www.nhbs.com/biodegradable-marking-tape