Bobsled? Trail Etiquette?

Seems to be some valid points on both sides of the issue. While there's no excuse for dickish behaviour, there's also something to be said for riding trails that match one's skill level - so which side carries more weight?

WRT the OP Bobsled is a blue or intermediate trail, not a "beginner oriented trail" as suggested. Should that factor into the equation at all or is it simply anyone has the right to ride or attempt to ride any trail out there?

Posted by: nortonwhis

If i'm riding with my girlfriend and someone tries to pass her when she isn't expecting it, they are gonna fucking hear about it no matter what. Don't care how big/tough/fast they are, i will be up in their grill. I can only imagine how I would feel whilst riding with children

that's quite sexist of you, why are you denying her to be able to speak up on her own? women can do that on their own, it's 2018, geez

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: nortonwhis

If i'm riding with my girlfriend and someone tries to pass her when she isn't expecting it, they are gonna fucking hear about it no matter what. Don't care how big/tough/fast they are, i will be up in their grill. I can only imagine how I would feel whilst riding with children

that's quite sexist of you, why are you denying her to be able to speak up on her own? women can do that on their own, it's 2018, geez

Get this man a cape.

Did some lower Breamar laps today in the wet. A group of slow kids with parents were riding lower espresso. Just stopped with my hound for a couple mins when I caught up to give them time to finish up without being pressured. Dad at bottom said thanks, was all good, doesn't have to be drama. Usually its pretty chill, we can all play together.

it really comes down to common sense. If it's safe to pass then do it. I have a 6 year old who rides and have no issues with someone who want to pass him. Don't even get me started on unleashed dogs on busy trails.

Posted by: Sethimus

i can't think of any and that's why i decided to have none. cheaper lifestyle, also more calm and more me time.

what will you tell your kids when they ask why this generation and the one before us ruined the planet? when there will be REAL mass migration because the oceans destroyed so many places and it got too hot in many poor countries? when there will be eco-fashism and people want to decide who gets to live and who not? your kids will clearly experience quite ugly moments caused due to over population and they will judge you for it.

Seriously, if you have any availability for some babysitting, look me up.  You'd be perfect for my guys!

Wow, this thread has it all. Melting glaciers, rising oceans, famine, sexism, parenting instincts yada yada.

It's a public trail. Everyone has the right to use it even if it is above their ability. I stop at the edges of drops and jumps sometimes the first time I ride a double black. I'm sure if some of y'all rode up behind me when I was doing that I would ruin your "strava" (whatever that is...) but if you cop an attitude about me being there or pass in an aggressive way you would get an earful from me (or my wife more likely). It doesn't matter if it is a bunch of kids or an adult stretching their boundaries, have respect for other riders and some humility about yourself.

More importantly than all this though...whatever happened to giving right of way to the uphill rider? In the 90's this was like the 11th commandment. People never thought of breaking this rule. I don't know if it is a BC thing (as I moved out here in early 2000's and noticed the MTB ethos changed) or if it is a rule of conduct that has simply gone the way of the dodo.

More importantly that that is whatever happened to right of way on sidewalks. Vancouver is totally fucked for this. People just don't move over. My wife and I are from Toronto, where people politely move over to their side of the sidewalk and pass each other civilly. My wife and I have done experiments and have literally run into people occupying more than their share of the sidewalk if we refuse to get out of the way. For some reason the other person acts all surprised like "I'm so sorry I hit you, why didn't you move out of my way?". How do you run into someone you are walking towards and be surprised when you hit them when you don't even try to get out of the way?.......the more I think about it, I think people in Vancouver lack manners.

Slow the fuck down when passing people. Have some respect for other trail riders and get your ego in check. And for god's sake, don't scare the shit out of kids trying to learn how to ride trails.

RAH,

My whole riding group works on the basis of uphill rider has the right of way. When I am climbing on a 2 way trail, I just assume the right of way and keep going (like crossing a street, you need to control the situation), if I am descending, I slow and pull over, or stop for the climber to pass and keep their momentum. Somebody in the interaction has to take control, so it might as well be you.

As for the sidewalk thing, that is just a new thing of people having their heads down, or looking at their phone, or their minds wandering elsewhere. It never used to be like that here (I notice this too now), it is what we have become as a society, self absorbed and inconsiderate, the problem is that we accept this as normal now, so it doesn't change.

And what about those people who use the left hand lane as a travel-lane?

I find Vancouver remarkably polite and orderly relative to Toronto, where the concept of alternating merge lanes to get on the bridge would last only as long as it took for the second car to show up.

And by uphill rider you mean the rider riding up the hill, not the rider coming up behind a slower rider who is descending..... correct?

TonyJ - I wish it was just people on their phones etc. It is, as you put it, the new norm. Although when I go home to toronto, I find walking on the sidewalk much more relaxing despite larger numbers of people as people avoid one another. As for taking control of the situation, I am a 220lb rider and often have to knock handlebars with some bobblehead who thinks I am going to stop for them. And that is if they are lucky enough to have me riding in front and not my wife!

Reductimat - OMG so true. We don't have passing lanes in BC, just two driving lanes.

Ddean - I agree. driving in Toronto is much more aggressive than BC. I used to not turn on my lane switch signal until I was halfway through it as if you turned it on before changing lanes the person behind would speed up so you couldn't go in front of them! Alternating lane merging would be very foringn to toronto drivers -  if you "showed weakness" and let someone merge in front of you, you can bet three more would try to pull in ahead of you as well. And yes, I meant the climbing rider.

be the change you want to see in the world

Wow, thanks all for your comments in the thread. 

I will answer a couple of things pointed out to me from my original post. 

Yes! is the simple answer, riding with my 18 month old is pretty much fun for me. I have never had an issue with people passing me when I am with him. He loves it too. Bump bump and cheering and laughing the entire way down and high fiving and fist bumping all the way up.

My issue was with my 4 year old getting passed. I ride behind her to give her a buffer and I make sure people know they are about to pass a 4 year old. But, please just do so with care. I do my best to ride at times that are not too busy, and trust me she can handle everything that bobsled can throw at her she just does it at 4 year old pace. All I ask is let us clear the track for you when it is safe and then get back to your top speeds.

Both my kids will learn proper trail etiquette as they grow up, including the climbing rider has the right of way and pass only when it is safe to do so. As their skills improve they will be looking to get on to bigger and better trails so this debate will never really end. it all comes down to RESPECT. Then we can all get along on the giant playgrounds that we are all so fortunate to get to play on.

As has been said they're public trails so no judgement here if parents want to take small kids on bobsled I guess, but for me personally  I keep in mind that the trail does need to be shared, just like a public street, so just because it my right to take my little kid there doesn't mean it's the best plan. Just like I could take could teach them how to ride using the bike lane on Seymour Parkway. Could do it. Great idea?

So while I agree riders need to yield and be careful passing little kids on the trail, just like when driving past little kids on the street, I think that parents should think carefully about if their kids have reached the age where they understand the concept of sharing a trail and that they need to watch out, reasonably enough that onus has not been placed 100% onto the parents and other riders. I'm not sure that's really fair for anyone. 

I have a 5 year old and there are plenty of places to take him where he has just as much fun as he would on bobsled but without the added issues (both for him, me, and other trail users). In another year or two I'll be confident that he can be reasonably aware of and understand the concept of other trail users. Obviously I'll still ride behind him and let him know there's a rider up. 

Again I realize every parent is different so all good, but my general take is people rush their kids into these types of trails and it doesn't do anyone any favors. Need to think about the big picture.