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BC government policy on bike trails

Nov. 17, 2008, 10:52 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 9, 2003

I was under the impression they were adopting the Whistler standard.

River City Cycle Club - www.rivercitycycle.ca

Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Nov. 17, 2008, 10:58 a.m.
Posts: 18059
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I'm not totally up on the insurance issue, but does CyclingBC insurance not cover off members for trail maintenance activities?

unless they've changed their policy for this year, the answer is no. we (BMBA) did a lot of research and hired a lawyer to look into the issue and eventually purchased our insurance through somewhere else. it's a pretty tricky issue.

Nov. 17, 2008, 11:04 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 9, 2003

IMBA-affiliated clubs in the U.S. and Canada are eligible to purchase a special mountain biking club insurance policy from McKay Insurance of Iowa. The policy insures your club for liability arising from events like club rides, kids rides, meetings, trail maintenance, bike patrols, and other club activities. A standard policy costs USD $1.55 per club member, with a $200 minimum.

So that doesn't sound like 3rd party liability insurance either.

LG, Where did you get your insurance?

River City Cycle Club - www.rivercitycycle.ca

Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Nov. 17, 2008, 1:42 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: May 1, 2006

.flow - the Whistler trail standards are not binding on the MOTSA trail standards. Don't confuse the two. What MOTSA needs to clarify is what kinds of trail standards they will impose.

From the policy:
_Develop mountain bike trails rated in accordance with the Ministry Guidelines and Standards for Authorized Improvements except that _

Kamloops Bike Riders Association
Build It.__Ride It.

Nov. 17, 2008, 1:50 p.m.
Posts: 6663
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

The freaking government keeps changing the url because they keep renaming their ministries - here's the now -current link

http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/sites_trails/docs/Provincial_Trails_Strategy/DraftTrail_Strategy_110608.pdf

Road-Rash where is the policy you cited? Is it the original policy released in 2006?

Nov. 17, 2008, 2:16 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: May 1, 2006

Road-Rash

Specifically what is the paper work to manage?

Does MOTSA require you to have insurance for trail maintenance?

What benefits does MOTSA give you? Dollars? If so, how much?

Does MOTSA give you Resources? eg tools, materials etc.?

The paperwork that troubles us are the inventory and mapping of all TTF's, maintenance and inspection records of all trails and TTF's, records of any known significant injuries and accidents, etc…

Insurance is general liability insurance covering the club activities, including maintenance, but NOT INCLUDING RACES and TIMED EVENTS.
http://www.oasisinsurance.ca/ins/imba.html

MoTSA gave us $10K seed money to get the pilot project up and running to cover GPS and mapping, signage, tools and building materials, and to run events like our IMBA Trail Care Crew weekend course.

We are now using that money for building materials to repair older structures and build new ones with an eye towards safety and rider progression.

It's a good process… it just takes admin time, organization, and a strong volunteer base.

Kamloops Bike Riders Association
Build It.__Ride It.

Nov. 17, 2008, 2:21 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: May 1, 2006

Road-Rash where is the policy you cited? Is it the original policy released in 2006?

No idea where it's posted, ours was emailed to us.
I'll follow up and see if an official one is available.

Check your PM in a sec…

Kamloops Bike Riders Association
Build It.__Ride It.

Nov. 17, 2008, 2:32 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 9, 2003

Insurance is general liability insurance covering the club activities, including maintenance, but NOT INCLUDING RACES and TIMED EVENTS.
http://www.oasisinsurance.ca/ins/imba.html

Premium: $ 10 per club member, $ 4 per km of trail as described above, plus a $ 25 policy fee subject to a minimum premium and fee of $ 275 per club. Each club shall provide a completed application and shall be charged as noted above. There is no premium adjustment as they grow. There is no retroactive adjustment due to membership growth.

Interesting. I can see this being feasible for larger areas/clubs, but what about the smaller towns with a total of 5 local riders?

River City Cycle Club - www.rivercitycycle.ca

Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Nov. 17, 2008, 3:03 p.m.
Posts: 6663
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Why the hell do we need this insurance if the Province can amend the Occupiers Liability Act so that trail clubs performing maintenance are immune from liability and the landowners on which the trails are located are also immune.??

There'll be OLA exceptions for criminal actions or very limited circumstances of course but those should be exceptions. Why the hell should guys like Knnn have to worry about their ass on the line?

Nov. 17, 2008, 7:08 p.m.
Posts: 2387
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Yeah, some points to consider…

Once the trails are legal, insured, and managed by a group, there will finally be some incentive to sue someone. Sign me up, my retirement plan involves suing the pants of everyone I can. The ONLY place that I know of where a suit was prosecuted to a settlement (out of court unfortunately) was in Victoria and was a result of having these kinds of agreements in place.

If the point of this exercise is to get grass roots organizations to manage the resource, then ditch the liability bullshit. Liability has NOTHING to do with resource management. It's just in the way. Further, make this process simple. Like a volunteer group is going to file the same kind of management plan that a mining company does.

One thing that is required now is to consult with First Nations in detail every step of the way. On the one hand, this sounds like just good manners. However, a more cynical mind might consider this to be just another effort by another interested party to pressure the Native groups, say by overwhelming them with paperwork so that they might make some concessions on their land claims.

Even John Hawkings at MoTCA was hinting that the law needs to change. Kind of sad when the US is more progressive than we are on this kind of thing. I thought we were supposed to be the best.

37 YEARS ON THE BIKE :: 1981-2018

Nov. 17, 2008, 7:17 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Yeah, some points to consider…

Once the trails are legal, insured, and managed by a group, there will finally be some incentive to sue someone. Sign me up, my retirement plan involves suing the pants of everyone I can. The ONLY place that I know of where a suit was prosecuted to a settlement (out of court unfortunately) was in Victoria and was a result of having these kinds of agreements in place.

If the point of this exercise is to get grass roots organizations to manage the resource, then ditch the liability bullshit. Liability has NOTHING to do with resource management. It's just in the way. Further, make this process simple. Like a volunteer group is going to file the same kind of management plan that a mining company does.

One thing that is required now is to consult with First Nations in detail every step of the way. On the one hand, this sounds like just good manners. However, a more cynical mind might consider this to be just another effort by another interested party to pressure the Native groups, say by overwhelming them with paperwork so that they might make some concessions on their land claims.

Even John Hawkings at MoTCA was hinting that the law needs to change. Kind of sad when the US is more progressive than we are on this kind of thing. I thought we were supposed to be the best.

those are some great point smoke, I've got the draft 'trails strategy for british columbia' sitting right here, gonna take a bit of time to get through it tonight….might have to take a pic or two of relevant text, cause I'm too lazy to type it all out!

Nov. 17, 2008, 7:28 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 30, 2005

I've already read thru the latest draft of the trails strategy
and it was recommended that the provincial government amend the occupiers liability act just as LeeLau suggested.
However, don't forget that we are dealing with government here,
by the time this actually gets done we'll be old and grey.
That's why it was "recommended" to groups such as FVMBA to procur our own insurance policies in order for our stewardship proposals to move forward.

A rat is just a squirrel with street cred

Nov. 17, 2008, 7:38 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 30, 2005

The paperwork that troubles us are the inventory and mapping of all TTF's, maintenance and inspection records of all trails and TTF's, records of any known significant injuries and accidents, etc…

Insurance is general liability insurance covering the club activities, including maintenance, but NOT INCLUDING RACES and TIMED EVENTS.
http://www.oasisinsurance.ca/ins/imba.html

MoTSA gave us $10K seed money to get the pilot project up and running to cover GPS and mapping, signage, tools and building materials, and to run events like our IMBA Trail Care Crew weekend course.

We are now using that money for building materials to repair older structures and build new ones with an eye towards safety and rider progression.

It's a good process… it just takes admin time, organization, and a strong volunteer base.

Road_Rash, it sounds like you guys are on par with what we've being doing out here on vedder.
Though it sounds like your MoTCA rep is a little bit more generous than ours:lol:
Do you also have to fill out the forms that MoTCA requires you to submit for new trail construction?

A rat is just a squirrel with street cred

Nov. 17, 2008, 8:17 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2006

MOTSA is still the junior player where forests are concerned and any trail in the forest will be subject to the Ministry of Forests and their short term plans. Take the Centennial Trail as an example. Although this triail was constructed in 1967 and is mentioned in more than one government brochure as a tourist attraction and recreational trail, the Ministry of Forests does not recognize it as an official trail even it is more than 40 years old. Little consideration has been given to this trail wherever logging has occured and much of the trail is now relegated to logging roads.
As long as the Ministry of Forests is in the business of cutting down trees any work with MOTSA will be subject to their plans.

Nov. 17, 2008, 10:43 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 9, 2003

As long as the Ministry of Forests is in the business of cutting down trees any work with MOTSA will be subject to their plans.

Having your trail as "Designated Rec Feature" ensures your trail will be considered in the management process, it doesnt turn your trail into a park.

River City Cycle Club - www.rivercitycycle.ca

Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

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