Another gravel path... Courtesy of MEC and NSMBA

Rode Bridle this weekend, both directions. All the new trail work is great. I actually enjoyed the ride back for the first time in years. Thanks to all involved.

There is an abundance of gnarly awkward zero flow shit all over the North Shore - having sections that you can ride your bike along without being Hans Rey is most appreciated.

I've gotta say I was disappointed to find the Bypass missing some of my favourite technical challenges, the parts of the trail that made it an accomplishment (to me) to clear. That said, I had my dad with me and he enjoyed the trail more because previously he was walking a lot of those sections. Positives, negatives I guess. I'll find a new challenge somewhere.

I'd like to point out with some of the defensive/accusatory/guilt-tripping responses to these legitimate concerns, I can see why someone not part of the nsmba/trail-building crew would hesitate to join. I certainly haven't been on my fair share of trail days recently (though for the record, I have been on a handful), and I sold a lot through the nsmba bike swap, but I will absolutely NOT be shamed into attending. That said, all of the trail days I've attended were fun.

I think it would be more meaningful for the NSMBA to have an ambassador to deal with these sorts of conversations than for them to preach to the converted at their AGM. I think its a credit to NSMB.com that the website is the go-to place for these issues.

The trails are not for the exclusive use of NSMBA members, someone who does not participate under the NSMBA umbrella is still a stakeholder.

I love mountain biking

I'd like to point out with some of the defensive/accusatory/guilt-tripping responses to these legitimate concerns, I can see why someone not part of the nsmba/trail-building crew would hesitate to join. I certainly haven't been on my fair share of trail days recently (though for the record, I have been on a handful), and I sold a lot through the nsmba bike swap, but I will absolutely NOT be shamed into attending. That said, all of the trail days I've attended were fun.

I think it would be more meaningful for the NSMBA to have an ambassador to deal with these sorts of conversations than for them to preach to the converted at their AGM. I think its a credit to NSMB.com that the website is the go-to place for these issues.

The trails are not for the exclusive use of NSMBA members, someone who does not participate under the NSMBA umbrella is still a stakeholder.

I love mountain biking

that's a difficult task when you're dealing with a topic that often speaks to people's lifestyle, and in some cases helps define the being of who they are. in that situation when someone is too close to the topic and in a position of authority it may be best as you and others have suggested to have a more neutral voice deal with the public opinion end of things.

once again, i think mat bond has done an exemplary job of this when he's waded into the foray.

ps - i love it too. and trail building as well.

I'm selling "Stop. Dumbing. Down. Teh. Shore." bumper stickers for $5 a pop. Who's buying?

I think it would be more meaningful for the NSMBA to have an ambassador to deal with these sorts of conversations than for them to preach to the converted at their AGM. I think its a credit to NSMB.com that the website is the go-to place for these issues.

The trails are not for the exclusive use of NSMBA members, someone who does not participate under the NSMBA umbrella is still a stakeholder.

I don't disagree that it would be good if the NSMBA could communicate on this forum constantly but I'll tell you that when I was on the Board (key word "was" - I'm just a plain old member these days), we debated the effort/reward ratio of doing so. And back then, we came to the conclusion that it was too much work for too little reward. Maybe that's changed but I don't think so. For one, NSMB.com is a bit of an echo chamber as most will attest. The same stuff comes up again and again. And for the most part, the NSMB.com community does a good job of saying what the NSMBA position is (even if it's not in the most diplomatic terms). Second, anonymity is a problem. People say shit on here that they would never say to you in person. And so trying to reason with that person generally isn't effective. They put their talking points on repeat and in the end the only thing the person trying to reason has done is waste time they could have put into something useful. Third, as hard as it may be to believe, the NSMB.com community is not a representative sample of the riding community. I think that there are some folks passionate about mountain biking on here, but there are plenty of passionate and skillful people outside of this community as well. Spending all your time responding to NSMB.com threads simply doesn't get much done.

Personally, I got my back up because the OP was being incendiary with that poll with its two silly options. Especially in the context of Bridle Path and Cardiac Bypass (which I consider part of the primary Bridle Path route) where I believe they should be at the easier end of the spectrum. I agree that there ARE legitimate questions to be made about the preservation of tech or whether trails should form spaghetti or whether there should be directional signage in the forest. And NSMB.com isn't a bad place to discuss them - I just don't think there should be an expectation for the NSMBA to weigh in on every thread.

As for the AGM as preaching to the converted - you haven't been around long enough or been to enough AGMs! The year I signed up for the Board, the NSMBA was probably at its lowest point ever. It was depressing. Almost no one was happy about anything. Next AGM ridership morale was somewhat higher but meeting was still a massive bitchfest about how we sucked (I'm paraphrasing here). And then more progress was shown, TAP launched, the web site got fixed, finances were put in order, relationships with land managers were healed, events were run, volunteers were mobilized, newsletters were sent, tweets were twittered, and more. So maybe the latest AGM looks like it was preaching to the converted. Or maybe it's because a whole lot of people in the riding community put in a bunch of work to make it the way they wanted.

It sure isn't perfect. There is still a ton of work to do. And I'm happy that there's a new board and a great community to lead and do it!

Tim

I was part of the volunteer trail building crew which put in the 'spaghetti' section and, to me, the signposting makes absolute sense. This "spaghetti of trails" simply bypasses some short but very difficult climbing sections. The original climbing routes are still there, for those who want to use them but the signs are to discourage riders descending the new (golded) sections of trail and ripping them up prematurely.

As to signposts 'all over the place' and whether they spoil the experience for you, well I'm sure once you've ridden the trail a couple of times you can figure out which way to go and therefore ignore them.

I've ridden in many different areas of BC, the US and Europe - signs/signposts/way-marking are a fact of life there. And I can understand why they may be intrusive and devalue the 'wilderness' experience, lower Seymour is hardly a wilderness so I can live with it.

As regards the Cardiac Bypass itself, I rode the new route last night for the first time and I enjoyed it. At least it isn't one-and-half meters wide so still requires some concentration to ride and there's still plenty of rooty sections to get your fix

I can't say I approve of everything done so far under the TAP program (even for other trail days I've done) but for THIS trail, the work is appropriate IMHO

thank you 6061 for your work! Its much appreciated despite all this.

I would think the nsmba has things that are much more productive to do in their spare time than cater to the drivel that seems to wind up on internet bulletin boards. Some people will never be happy, and others just sit and wait for things to argue about. The internet forum biker is a pretty small portion of the riding community (as stated above in another post) it's just that they are more vocal (on the internet that is)

And back then, we came to the conclusion that it was too much work for too little reward…

…As for the AGM as preaching to the converted - you haven't… been to enough AGMs!

It sure isn't perfect. There is still a ton of work to do. And I'm happy that there's a new board and a great community to lead and do it!

Tim

You've got a point there, it's always a measure of how much time/resources an organization wants to put in and NSMBA is probably better off recruiting new members/building trails.

You're absolutely right, I haven't been to enough AGM's.

I appreciate the reasoned responses to my post, I tend to avoid forums but I hope to contribute more to this one.

Angus

Everyone, let's focus on the real problem here! The gravel trail NSMBA is making on Bridle Path is just a ploy to take our attention away from the real destruction they are doing elsewhere, which is:

Making the Bobsled exit wheel chair accessible! I mean WTF?! The 5 meters of eroded gnarly rockfest at the end of that trail was the best experience in all of the North Shore. How dare they remove all that shit and flatten it out? They should have left it to its "natural" state. Now it totally messed up my enjoyment of that trail and the North Shore is now so stupid is not worth riding anymore, and I'm gonna sell my mountain bike and buy a hybrid. It also totally fucked up with the KOMs of the whole Bobsled segment on Strava. I mean fuck, now someone has to make a new segment, because all the previous KOMs are invalidated.

Fuckin trail builders are ruining my life. Why can't they just go fix their own trails, and leave my trails alone?

Um, isn't the purpose of the 'by-pass' to provide an easier option around the gnarly, rooty Cardiac Hill?

Um, isn't the purpose of the 'by-pass' to provide an easier option around the gnarly, rooty Cardiac Hill?

shhhhhh, don't get in the way of their "you ruined my hardcore experience!! (on the supposed to be easy go-around)" narrative.

shhhhhh, don't get in the way of their "you ruined my hardcore experience!! (on the supposed to be easy go-around)" narrative.

Question.

Why is it assumed that the OP is acting like he's hardcore?

All I see is a guy lamenting the removal of some mildly tricky sections on a relativley easy trail (gravel comments withstanding).

Maybe some folks really enjoyed the challenge of the "flow destroying" natural obstacles.

Just because you're not happy with the outcome of some trailwork,it doesn't make you a johnny brobrah hardcore or unappriciative of trail vollies….you're still just a rider with a voice. Judging by the poll on this thread,as flawed as it may be,it appears to be more of a reality that smoother trails aren't the product that the masses desire.

…And going for a ride with Simmons to prove how HC you are won't change a thing about the direction of trailwork on trails that folks are talking about,so let's put that one to rest.