27.5 vs 29 for the shore

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: craw

Rider height so be a part of these conversations. A taller rider could have easy fun on a 29er in situations where big wheels could be a chore for someone shorter. Proportionality has an effect on what works well for a person.

Yeah that's a good point to consider. It makes sense that the larger 29" bikes would be better suited to taller/larger people. I'm in the middle at 5'11, but when I first hopped on a 29er I could feel the difference in the physical qualities of the bike. It wasn't in a bad way but it definitely felt like more bike to move around. I can't say I noticed a similar difference going from 26 to 27.5. For you did the move to the bigger bike feel like it was more natural?

Synchro, at the same height as you, my switch to 29 went the same way. I didn't notice much of a difference going from 26 to 27.5, other than increased grip and rollover. From 27.5 to 29, it definitely took some getting used to, but I now prefer it overall for the do-it-all suspension bike. My buddy (1" shorter, but with proportionately shorter legs) is about to drop cake on new dropouts for his Banshee Prime, so he can feel more comfortable off the back in mullet setup. So I think Craw's point is huge, when it comes to who's going to feel best on 29er shore tech.

All that said, I currently retrain my brain on all the sizes. 26 wheels on my pump/jump bike, 27.5/26 mullet on my DH bike, 27.5 all-round on my hard tail, and 29 for the suspension trail bike. I love all those setups, and still manage to have fun somehow. 

I've been on the 27.5 hard tail religiously since mid-November, so I'm actually interested to see if it wigs me out going back to 29 once I get my suspension servicing completed for that bike.

Posted by: craw

Oh yeah. I'm definitely at the taller end of the spectrum and I won't be going back to smaller wheels. They are better for me in every way. At 5'11" you're right in the sweet spot where any wheels size could be good depending on application.

It would be interesting to see how you felt on a bike with smaller wheels but similar geometry such as wb, bb height, reach, etc. I think that bb height would be the most important to match up. The larger diameter wheels means the bike theoretically sits higher, bit it's the bb height and bar height that determines where your cog is. It's kind of an all other things being equal, does the rollover capacity of bigger wheels outweigh the negatives they have?

It's tricky to compare, since a 650 and a 29er with the same BB height will have very different amounts of BB drop.

IMO the fact that the BB is so much lower than the axles is what makes 29ers feel stable and in some ways feel lower for the same BB height, your CoG is more in between the wheels than on top of them.

This makes 29ers feel stable and more OTB-proof but can also make you feel like you're paddling a bathtub down a river.  That 29er feeling sometimes makes me feel "stuck" inside the bike and like I can't really gain any leverage to move the bike around. On off days this is a life saver, but when I'm feeling feisty I feel like I have to fight against it. Things feel looser and more free to move around with a small wheeled bike.

I think that bathtub/stuck feeling has more to do with the gyroscopic effect of the larger diameter and much higher rotating mass.

Posted by: Kenny

IMO the fact that the BB is so much lower than the axles is what makes 29ers feel stable and in some ways feel lower for the same BB height, your CoG is more in between the wheels than on top of them.

This makes 29ers feel stable and more OTB-proof but can also make you feel like you're paddling a bathtub down a river.  That 29er feeling sometimes makes me feel "stuck" inside the bike and like I can't really gain any leverage to move the bike around. On off days this is a life saver, but when I'm feeling feisty I feel like I have to fight against it. Things feel looser and more free to move around with a small wheeled bike.

This analogy is spot-on for me. I've adapted to really liking the "inside the bike" feeling on the one 29er I own, but that's a great way of describing the difference in the dynamic feel.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: craw

Oh yeah. I'm definitely at the taller end of the spectrum and I won't be going back to smaller wheels. They are better for me in every way. At 5'11" you're right in the sweet spot where any wheels size could be good depending on application.

It would be interesting to see how you felt on a bike with smaller wheels but similar geometry such as wb, bb height, reach, etc. I think that bb height would be the most important to match up. The larger diameter wheels means the bike theoretically sits higher, bit it's the bb height and bar height that determines where your cog is. It's kind of an all other things being equal, does the rollover capacity of bigger wheels outweigh the negatives they have?

I used to have a Demo, maybe in 2011, 26" wheels, which was my park/shuttle bike. I got my E29 shortly after. I remember the day I did a TOTW to Kashmir and Kush and put the Demo up for sale the next day. The E29 was better in every situation for me. The smaller wheels got hung up on everything and that necessitated more travel to prevent the bike from getting stuck in sharp g-outs. This was made so much worse by disproportional bikes of the time factored against a much higher center of gravity. 

It seemed like everything about the Demo was necessitated by the limitations of the little wheels. The 29" wheels was allowing me to comfortably ride tech on what was an XC bike by comparison. 

For me there are no negatives to bigger wheels. I'm tall enough with enough leverage that 29" bikes don't feel overly long or difficult to manage. I can manual my XL Geometron without issue. But now that I consider it differently. The G1 has really progressive geometry - I wonder how it would go with smaller wheels? Interesting question. But not one I'm likely to explore because there's nothing about the performance of the 29s that make me want to switch.

Someone out there got some 203mm rotor, Boost rear, 11spd 27.5 wheels that I could borrow for a day?