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Snowboarder caught in slide in Whistler.

Jan. 13, 2017, 12:39 p.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

How about both? education, knowledge, equipment, etc.. are just tools, not guarantees. Many pro guides get caught as well.

Many? Really? Many pro guides are getting swept? I highly highly doubt that.

Have pro guides got caught in slides? Yes. But I think your wording above is pretty disingenuous to the ACMG/IFMG guiding community.

Jan. 13, 2017, 12:43 p.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

all I'm saying is why limit yourself? it all helps. Specially if it's proven that it works. Don't be stupid but shit happen.

Therein lies the problem…shit doesnt have to happen.

For example, in my region i know that a hoar occured in the alpine on the 5/6 of january. since then there has been about 20 cm of new with signifigant reverse windloading. I could see evidence of this from my living room this morning.

There are also deeper instabilities that i know about.

In a nutshell, back country and side country lines that i usually play on safely are going to be very different from the norm right now,so i decided to not go skiing today.

It all starts with being educated before you head out.

Jan. 13, 2017, 12:48 p.m.
Posts: 11
Joined: Nov. 20, 2005

Does having a beacon make you take risks that you wouldn't do otherwise?

Of course it does.

I've taken my AST, done a ton of reading, beacon/shovel/probe/saw/snow study kit AND have an airbag. Don't die because you're cheap, and I'll take anything I can in case of an accident.

Jan. 13, 2017, 1 p.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

Does having a beacon make you take risks that you wouldn't do otherwise?

Of course it does.

I've taken my AST, done a ton of reading, beacon/shovel/probe/saw/snow study kit AND have an airbag. Don't die because you're cheap, and I'll take anything I can in case of an accident.

Im sorry, but i have to disagree with your line of reasoning. Do you drive faster because your car has airbags?

Of course not.

We cant blame our mistakes on gear. It all comes down to the decisions we make.

Jan. 13, 2017, 1:03 p.m.
Posts: 1129
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Im sorry, but i have to disagree with your line of reasoning. Do you drive faster because your car has airbags?

Of course not.

We cant blame our mistakes on gear. It all comes down to the decisions we make.

or in this case don't make.

context is everything

Jan. 13, 2017, 1:06 p.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

One positive that is coming from this is that Im sure everyone viewing this thread is doing a self assessment of how we conduct ourselves in the back country.

Jan. 13, 2017, 1:16 p.m.
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Many? Really? Many pro guides are getting swept? I highly highly doubt that.

Have pro guides got caught in slides? Yes. But I think your wording above is pretty disingenuous to the ACMG/IFMG guiding community.

fair, many was for effect.. I'm just trying to say that it and does happen to the best. Why limit yourself. Saying many was kind of stupid…

http://www.epiccyclist.com/

Jan. 13, 2017, 1:35 p.m.
Posts: 11
Joined: Nov. 20, 2005

Im sorry, but i have to disagree with your line of reasoning. Do you drive faster because your car has airbags?

Of course not.

We cant blame our mistakes on gear. It all comes down to the decisions we make.

So you're saying you would ski/snowboard the exact same terrain if you didn't have a beacon on?

Jan. 13, 2017, 1:53 p.m.
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

One positive that is coming from this is that Im sure everyone viewing this thread is doing a self assessment of how we conduct ourselves in the back country.

that's one thing no one can disagree with.

http://www.epiccyclist.com/

Jan. 13, 2017, 2:11 p.m.
Posts: 1471
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

Does having a beacon make you take risks that you wouldn't do otherwise?

Of course it does.

I can't find the quote right now, it may have been on the old TTips website, but I'm pretty sure a highly experienced local CAA instructor stated that when they overhauled the Recreational course into AST1, one of the reasons was that they had found that people who had taken the rec course were, in some cases, making worse decisions than someone with no training because they had a false sense of security after taking the course.

I don't know how they could address that, but I can believe it.

Jan. 13, 2017, 2:11 p.m.
Posts: 2009
Joined: July 19, 2003

also it does not matter what gear you carry it is going to be your partner(s) who save your ass if things go sideways.

i don't want to slut shame the people in the video but watching his partner come down beside the debris makes me wonder what he was thinking when he bud went for a ride. i am not saying he did anything wrong, the video if does not show his route down. but he could have make things worse if he had triggered a slab down on top of him. quick reaction by the sledder though.

Just a speculative fiction. No cause for alarm.

Jan. 13, 2017, 2:38 p.m.
Posts: 11
Joined: Nov. 20, 2005

The point I was making before, is the idea that you won't put yourself in an avalanche prone situation, so you don't need one is stupid. If that was the case, why would you even bother with a beacon?

Best way to never get caught in an avalanche? Stay out of avi terrain. Obviously we all venture in there from time to time, that is why we do what we do.

The only reasons in my opinion to not getting an avalanche bag are that it's either too expensive, or you just don't want to because of the pack itself (weight, poor pack layout, etc). Like a beacon, it's yet another tool to increase your chances of survival, obviously none of which makes up for poor decision making… but granted something does go wrong… hopefully it'll keep you alive.

… and yes, it's easy to sit here and say, should have done this, should have done that. I know I've made mistakes over my time in the backcountry, but nothing has ever resulted from it. I just learned from them and moved on. We all make mistakes, and if you think you haven't, then you are a superhero and remind me never to go touring with you.

Jan. 13, 2017, 2:46 p.m.
Posts: 14378
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

The air bag big time changes your feelings of invincibility IMO because while the rescue stuff we carry is for rescue after fucking up period

the bag can SAVE you when you fuck up … that has gota change your attitude

a group of all male 18-35 yrs olds compared to having some women in the group is suposed to change the decision making process big time, snow pro's have names for all the syndromes that go on in decision making processes

yeah a "few" pro's fuck up but no where near "many"

Jan. 13, 2017, 3 p.m.
Posts: 11
Joined: Nov. 20, 2005

The air bag big time changes your feelings of invincibility IMO because while the rescue stuff we carry is for rescue after fucking up period

the bag can SAVE you when you fuck up … that has gota change your attitude

a group of all male 18-35 yrs olds compared to having some women in the group is suposed to change the decision making process big time, snow pro's have names for all the syndromes that go on in decision making processes

yeah a "few" pro's fuck up but no where near "many"

In my opinion, when the crown rips, it's already too late. You have 0 control, so that's just a shitty way of thinking really. At that point, I imagine you just hope for the best.

Jan. 13, 2017, 3:04 p.m.
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

yeah a "few" pro's fuck up but no where near "many"

but there lies the question. Did they actually fuck up as you say. Or, they did everything right but things happened for whatever reason and only after do we understand. I'm not pretending to know but one thing I do (I've learned that from my job) is we pros can and do fuck up, by making a mistake or learning something new that we never considered.

edit:
btw "many" was used for effect and yes it was a stupid thing to say…

http://www.epiccyclist.com/

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