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Skis

Oct. 21, 2015, 12:11 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Looking for a possible complementary ski for what I currently own.

I'm a terrible skier. Started with Dynafit Stokes recommended by a buddy. They climb well, at least for me. Descend - well no idea as I'm not a great skier.

Last year I picked up some used DPS Wailer 112RP skis (w dynafit radical bindings). For me they make skiing easier as turning is very easy and make me more confident going down. Full rocker, great for my slow speed and low confidence, gives terrible grip (compared to) my Stokes on icy side climbs (no confidence - I put on ski crampons when I use to wonder why I carried them before for my Stokes) and even boot when I feel really sketched.

So is there a compromise out there? Although the rockered tail makes switches sometimes difficult my biggest problem is edging along icier steep terrain - rockered skis have very short points of grip while full camber uses the tip and tail for grip spreading the load (much like wide vs narrow grip chin ups). However full rocker are great for me for skiing (rather than climbing), way more fun, way more confident. I ski slow, not likely to ever ski fast.

Suggestions? I can research specific options people mention. Thanx. Pray for snow!

Oct. 21, 2015, 12:25 p.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

All that hot air on the skis and climbing and not a single word on skins?

The rocker in the tips and tails isn't affecting grip. It's very very low percentage of grip loss due to the rocker and usually offset by the added width under foot.

Technique or crappy skins is the issue at hand.

Oct. 21, 2015, 12:35 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan. 8, 2015

Are the DPS skis fully rockered from tip to tail? For skinning up icy slopes with ease you want something with traditional camber underfoot. I'd keep the DPS skis for powder days and get another set for spring skiing/mountaineering/longer tours. I've been really impressed with my Kastle TX97s for those scenarios.

Oct. 21, 2015, 12:37 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

All that hot air on the skis and climbing and not a single word on skins?

The rocker in the tips and tails isn't affecting grip. It's very very low percentage of grip loss due to the rocker and usually offset by the added width under foot.

Technique or crappy skins is the issue at hand.

I'm using Coltex Mix skins - I believe they are the same as what I was using on the Dynafit (despite Dynafits name on the skins).

Edging on a steep pitch, skins (assuming they aren't over the metal edges) don't play much part on grip on hardpack icy terrain - it's all about the edge. The effective edge (from both logic, physics and other sources I've read) full rockered skis are short while full camber are long.

In addition, my technique shouldn't get worse for climbing unless I need to apply different technique for rockered vs cambered skis?

Thanx for the "hot air" comment - I'll edit the original.

Oct. 21, 2015, 12:46 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Are the DPS skis fully rockered from tip to tail? For skinning up icy slopes with ease you want something with traditional camber underfoot. I'd keep the DPS skis for powder days and get another set for spring skiing/mountaineering/longer tours. I've been really impressed with my Kastle TX97s for those scenarios.

Yeah but you are a good skier Mark up and down! But I'll read up on them. The DPS are fully rockered. I can go back to my Dynafits but then I'm back to just "getting down" rather than enjoying the descent. The full rocker is also great for the inevitable tree descent (like Needle Peak). Need a "transformer ski" :)

Did you figure out what cross bike to get?

Oct. 21, 2015, 1:03 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan. 8, 2015

Yeah but you are a good skier Mark up and down! But I'll read up on them. The DPS are fully rockered. I can go back to my Dynafits but then I'm back to just "getting down" rather than enjoying the descent. The full rocker is also great for the inevitable tree descent (like Needle Peak). Need a "transformer ski" :)

Did you figure out what cross bike to get?

You could also check out the Kastle TX107s for something a bit wider. I think as long as you have an early rise tip and decent width, you will still enjoy the descent! My G3 Manhattans have an early rise tip, traditional camber underfoot and no rise in the tail and they are a blast in powder with the added benefit of performing well on hardpack. I don't recommend them though because they need to be skied aggressively or they will take you for a ride!

I ordered a Focus Mares CX Disc Ultegra. It's getting built up in the shop as we speak :)

Oct. 21, 2015, 1:23 p.m.
Posts: 14378
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

I got 191 Stokes and the lazer cut W2W Pomoca skins made for the Stokes, IMO it skins well cuz its a fairly soft ski so it contours [HTML_REMOVED] grips to every surface, the pomoca's also weigh less than BD or G3 , I normaly skis 180-185 but I got a smokin deal on 191's so I went up a size usually not a problem to turn them well enough even tho they are pretty trad in design, IME I have to REALLY work the tails cuz there is no side cut in the tips

I got some JJ's with FR+ which are my rock touring setup and yeha they don't skin that well I thot it was just cuz the skins are not W2W, I also had the DPS 112's mounted alpine only and while I liked them they were not so different from the JJ, i found the full rocker 112[HTML_REMOVED] JJ make smaller [HTML_REMOVED]20 Meter turns and I like a bigger turn

So I picked up some hybrid DPS Lotus 120's, I liked the 112's but I LOVE the 120's which make 43Meter turns or the pintail design will slide sideways

last season I got some Dynafit Denalis only 176 (another smoking deal) with W2W lazer cut Pomoca's, super light only 99 under foot but still a pretty good pow ski

the Lotus, Denali and JJ are pretty much my heavy/light/rock touring setups

thinking of selling the Stokes

edit:
one thing I don't like about skinning with a twin tip ski is that the raised tails get in the way on kickturns, i prefer a ski with a flat tail for back country skiing

Oct. 21, 2015, 1:46 p.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

I may have read your initial post too fast and not picked up on it being mostly edging problems. I read it as issues getting grip on non side hilling skin tracks.

For starters on terminology your RP's are not a fully rocker ski. See that camber in the middle. They have rocker tip and rocker tail. A fully rockered ski won't have that camber or it might be really really short section of flat.

Your stokes were 105 waist, the RP are 112 so you've added width and a drawback to that is going to be ability to edge pressure side hills on icy skin tracks. Skins should be trimmed back 1-2mm from the edge so that the edges can get some bite. How is the tune on the ski? I assume you bought them new? New should be fine, used perhaps needed a tune.

The wider ski will require an adjustment to technique. Bit more angulation at the knee to get bite.

There are likely several possible skis back in the 100-105 range with similar tip and tail rocker to the RP that will skin better than the 112. Have a look at something like the Synapse 101 from G3.

I'd say keep the 112's for deeper snow days and add a more versatile ski that still has tip/tail rocker for days when you know it's not as deep and the skin track will suck.

Oct. 21, 2015, 2:09 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

I got 191 Stokes and the lazer cut W2W Pomoca skins made for the Stokes, IMO it skins well cuz its a fairly soft ski so it contours [HTML_REMOVED] grips to every surface, the pomoca's also weigh less than BD or G3 , I normaly skis 180-185 but I got a smokin deal on 191's so I went up a size usually not a problem to turn them well enough even tho they are pretty trad in design, IME I have to REALLY work the tails cuz there is no side cut in the tips

I got some JJ's with FR+ which are my rock touring setup and yeha they don't skin that well I thot it was just cuz the skins are not W2W, I also had the DPS 112's mounted alpine only and while I liked them they were not so different from the JJ, i found the full rocker 112[HTML_REMOVED] JJ make smaller [HTML_REMOVED]20 Meter turns and I like a bigger turn

So I picked up some hybrid DPS Lotus 120's, I liked the 112's but I LOVE the 120's which make 43Meter turns or the pintail design will slide sideways

last season I got some Dynafit Denalis only 176 (another smoking deal) with W2W lazer cut Pomoca's, super light only 99 under foot but still a pretty good pow ski

the Lotus, Denali and JJ are pretty much my heavy/light/rock touring setups

thinking of selling the Stokes

Wow you are all over the place for length of ski!

What do you mean by pintail design will slide sideways? Pintail from what I understand means width of tail to waist is only slightly different. So do you mean it's easy to slide sideways? Are the Lotus good at edging on climbs or too fat? I believe they are flat tailed are they not? Do they turn quick/easy (sounds like they don't)?

Sounds like you like to charge and do big lines? Opposite of me! :)

Oct. 21, 2015, 2:11 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

You could also check out the Kastle TX107s for something a bit wider. I think as long as you have an early rise tip and decent width, you will still enjoy the descent! My G3 Manhattans have an early rise tip, traditional camber underfoot and no rise in the tail and they are a blast in powder with the added benefit of performing well on hardpack. I don't recommend them though because they need to be skied aggressively or they will take you for a ride!

I ordered a Focus Mares CX Disc Ultegra. It's getting built up in the shop as we speak :)

The Kastle sound like my Stokes as the Stokes also have early rise. As a poor skier they don't help me on the downhills. Guess it's like Mtn bikes - either they climb well or they descend well but not really both.

Oct. 21, 2015, 2:22 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

I may have read your initial post too fast and not picked up on it being mostly edging problems. I read it as issues getting grip on non side hilling skin tracks.

For starters on terminology your RP's are not a fully rocker ski. See that camber in the middle. They have rocker tip and rocker tail. A fully rockered ski won't have that camber or it might be really really short section of flat.

Your stokes were 105 waist, the RP are 112 so you've added width and a drawback to that is going to be ability to edge pressure side hills on icy skin tracks. Skins should be trimmed back 1-2mm from the edge so that the edges can get some bite. How is the tune on the ski? I assume you bought them new? New should be fine, used perhaps needed a tune.

The wider ski will require an adjustment to technique. Bit more angulation at the knee to get bite.

There are likely several possible skis back in the 100-105 range with similar tip and tail rocker to the RP that will skin better than the 112. Have a look at something like the Synapse 101 from G3.

I'd say keep the 112's for deeper snow days and add a more versatile ski that still has tip/tail rocker for days when you know it's not as deep and the skin track will suck.

Well that is good to think about - fatter ski means more angulation and maybe I apply the same amount of angulation I applied to the Stokes which isn't enough.

Tuning skis - I've never really understood that. I should look into it. They were used.

I could work on angulation for sure - maybe I can make them work for me.

The Synapse 101 might be a good compromise - not as rockered but still pretty rockered, not as wide. Thanx I'll read up reviews on them. MEC probably rents them so I could give them a spin sometime too. Other ideas?

Oct. 21, 2015, 2:57 p.m.
Posts: 14378
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Wow you are all over the place for length of ski!

What do you mean by pintail design will slide sideways? Pintail from what I understand means width of tail to waist is only slightly different. So do you mean it's easy to slide sideways? Are the Lotus good at edging on climbs or too fat? I believe they are flat tailed are they not? Do they turn quick/easy (sounds like they don't)?

Sounds like you like to charge and do big lines? Opposite of me! :)

well either side of 185ish depending on whom is selling what for cheap, the denali are only come shorter than 186 so they r a little short/stiff and the stoke are a little soft so IMO no-one heavier than 180 should go near the stoke

the 182cm lotus are just right at 140-120-125 so I guess tip is alot skinnier than tail, 120 waist can be pretty wide for skinning on hard piste ( hard conditions I take the Denali), the early rise is 600mm so the tips never sub, I can crank them sideways like a snowboard any time or let them run for the 43M turns or any turn radius inbetween so they turn easy, they have a bit of up-turned tail but not like the 112

The Denali have less early rise but the tips stay up, IME I want lots of early rise for a BC ski

Fading advanced skier/old fuck who likes to ski pow

https://www.facebook.com/BearMountaineering/photos/a.171710836201251.29958.168516716520663/876581625714165/?type=3

spooning the guides tracks ^^ off the loft peak at a pretty good clip, buddy was on a 190 empire so i was impressed with the performance

Oct. 22, 2015, 3:55 p.m.
Posts: 1423
Joined: May 23, 2006

I got sum CR112's you might like……….they edge real good.

“.....with a malevolent fascist swine atop its titular apex, the pitiful wounded beast of a rotten, spiritually dead American Superpower is careening towards epic barbarism while pushing the species dangerously to the tipping points of extinction.”

Oct. 22, 2015, 9:26 p.m.
Posts: 1133
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

I got sum CR112's you might like……….they edge real good.

What are CR112s? I googled "CR112" and got no hit for that specifically. What brand, what ski "name". Thanx

Oct. 22, 2015, 9:35 p.m.
Posts: 1423
Joined: May 23, 2006



:drool::lol:

“.....with a malevolent fascist swine atop its titular apex, the pitiful wounded beast of a rotten, spiritually dead American Superpower is careening towards epic barbarism while pushing the species dangerously to the tipping points of extinction.”

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